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LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
We had a homeowner in our community make an exterior modification without checking with the Architectural Review Committee, which should be done as specified in our Covenants. Subsequently, the ARC found that the modification was not approved, and the Board followed the process specified in the governing documents for assessing a fine for a Covenant violation.

Now it's several months later, and we see that the fines are not compelling the homeowner to fix the problem. We checked with our attorney to pursue a Covenant violation lawsuit, and he told us the cost would be $10,000 or more. Maybe even much more. If the suit was contested, it could go as high as $25,000.

Our Association can't afford this much money -- especially since there is no guarantee that we can recoup our expenses from the homeowner even if we win the suit. So we are faced with dropping the whole thing, and giving future violators of the Covenants a ready-made defense of selective enforcement.

Suits we have filed for failing to pay assessments were relatively cheap, and almost always paid back what they cost. On the other hand, it looks like a Covenant violation lawsuit is totally infeasible.

Has any other HOA successfully pursued a Covenant violation lawsuit? Where did you find the money to proceed?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Avoid the lawsuit..It won't really help at all. The real option here is much stronger and cheaper. The HOa CAN go and fix the violation. the cost of which the violator has to pick up. that is if they do not take the option of fixing it on their own. the HOa then can charge the amount it cost to remove the vilation to the owner if the continue NOT to address it. The money the HOA spends on correcting the violation then goes to the owner. If the owner does NOT pay that bill then the HOA can place a lien for that amount plus legal fees for filing. Which the lien can't be lifted until they sell.

Now if they threaten to sue the HOA for this...guess what? tell them to go for it. It is cheaper to counter sue and sue for the cost of repairs/correction. A MUCH better option than the HOA bringong the lawsuit themselves.

Fines can NOT be the basis for liens or foreclosuresin most states. A win in court just gets the HOa a judgement not guaranteed money or action. A judgement can take 7 years before it needs renewsed. in the meantime the owner can up and sell their house without forcing to pay up on that lawsuir judgement. Plus 7 years from now who is going to rember to pursue it?

A HOA only needs a lawyer to represent them in court. Plus they will do anything you tell them to do including filing this lawsuit. Even though better options exist. Your HOA really needs to create a fining schedule and concentrate on that to start having more convenant violation powers.

Former HOA President
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Why dont you have the homeowner submit the paperwork, have the arc review it and approve it. Done.

Does it completely violate the CCR's?
Is it really worth fighting over?
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/08/2012 7:10 PM
Avoid the lawsuit..It won't really help at all.

I am coming to this same conclusion. But I don't want our ability to enforce the covenants become just a bluff.

Quote:
The HOa CAN go and fix the violation. the cost of which the violator has to pick up.

To go onto a person's property and make changes requires a court order and a sheriff standing by. This brings us back to the covenant enforcement lawsuit ant the $10,000 price tag.

Quote:
the cost of which the violator has to pick up.

As you say, any money spent on "self-help", which is what this is called in our Covenants, can be applied back to the homeowner. However, this brings us again to the question of how can we collect. And the answer is once again the requirement for a covenant enforcement lawsuit.

Quote:
If the owner does NOT pay that bill then the HOA can place a lien for that amount plus legal fees for filing. Which the lien can't be lifted until they sell.

You are right again. We can place a lien on the property, but unless there is sufficient equity to cover the amount of the lien the effort is moot. Right now, the house is under water or nearly so.

Quote:
Now if they threaten to sue the HOA for this...guess what? tell them to go for it.

I think at this point they have no reason to start a suit. They can just sit and wait for the statute of limitations (2 years) to run out on the covenant violation.

Quote:
Fines can NOT be the basis for liens or foreclosures in most states.

Georgia may be the exception. We can place a lien or include foreclosure in the lawsuit even if the only charges are fines for covenant violations.

Quote:
A win in court just gets the HOa a judgement not guaranteed money or action. A judgement can take 7 years before it needs renewsed. in the meantime the owner can up and sell their house without forcing to pay up on that lawsuir judgement. Plus 7 years from now who is going to rember to pursue it?

Right you are again. So our covenant enforcement lawsuit could cost us $10,000 or more and we end up winning an empty bag. So what is the point of coveant enforcement if we can't put teeth into our demands?

Quote:
Your HOA really needs to create a fining schedule and concentrate on that to start having more convenant violation powers.

Covenant violation powers are really what I am looking for here. We have a fining schedule, but it seems now that after levying fines, we can't do anything to collect them, and the homeowner is free to thumb their nose at us.

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 06/08/2012 8:43 PM
Why dont you have the homeowner submit the paperwork, have the arc review it and approve it. Done.
Does it completely violate the CCR's?
Is it really worth fighting over?

Steve,

That's a good question to ask about any covenant violation.

So do we approve every request just to avoid a fight? Where do you draw the line?

If we can't levy fines and make them stick, there is really no point to having any restrictions in the covenants, and we are left with the pink flamingos in the lawn and the purple siding with green trim.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Lawrence please, please ignore the suggestion of self-help. Yes most covenants have some provision allowing the HOA to remedy the violation and fine but only a fool would attempt something like that without a court order.

How big of violation are we talking here? Wrong paint color, wrong material or did they add a second floor? You might also try your local Zoning Board to see if they or their builder filed the proper permits. At the very least it could be a nice little fine for them.

For your problem going forward, I've read about HOA's that built huge fines $1000.00 into their fine schedule for work performed without ARC approval.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
remedy the violation and fine but

I meant remedy the violation and recover their fees

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LawrenceC1 on 06/08/2012 9:21 PM
They can just sit and wait for the statute of limitations (2 years) to run out on the covenant violation.

Are you certain that the statute of limitations applies? If a person builds a structure that violates the covenants it seems that the violation is occurring as long as the structure remains. Your ability to levy fines and collect may be limited by the SOL but you should be able to obtain injunctive relief as long as the structure violates your CC&R's.

BTW, I have seen similar debates about SOL and on-going violations but have never read of a definitive answer. I am hoping someone can supply one here.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 06/08/2012 11:24 PM
Lawrence please, please ignore the suggestion of self-help. Yes most covenants have some provision allowing the HOA to remedy the violation and fine but only a fool would attempt something like that without a court order.

I'm thinking the same thing. Thanks for confirming it.

Quote:
How big of violation are we talking here? Wrong paint color, wrong material or did they add a second floor?

It's an major exterior change that would cost $6,000 to $8,000 to remedy. I don't want to include any more details to avoid making this personally identifiable by the homeowner.

Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 06/08/2012 11:24 PM
You might also try your local Zoning Board to see if they or their builder filed the proper permits.
That's a good idea, but the zoning board won't fix the problem so we're still left with a toothless enforcement policy and a violation that is allowed to stand.

Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 06/08/2012 11:24 PM
For your problem going forward, I've read about HOA's that built huge fines $1000.00 into their fine schedule for work performed without ARC approval.

At $25 per day for several months we've built up a total fine well into the thousands of dollars. But we're faced with no way to collect those fines short of a lawsuit that requires us to put up $10,000 or more up front.

The thing that concerns us the most is losing the lawsuit and all our cash with it. An overdue assessment lawsuit is a slam dunk with little chance of losing, but this covenant violation suit would be a lot less certain.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 06/09/2012 1:06 AM
Are you certain that the statute of limitations applies?

Here in Georgia the law is very clear. We have 2 years from the date of a covenant violation in which to file suit. The clock starts when the violation occurs, and not when it is discovered. So if we don't notice a prohibited chicken coop in the back yard for 18 months, we would have only 6 months left to take action.

A continuing violation is something that is repeated. For instance, we have a prohibition on parking towed vehicles in the community for more than 72 hours at a time. If someone parks their boat trailer in their driveway the 2-year clock starts ticking. If they take the boat out of the community and then return it, the clock is re-started and we have a fresh 2 years to file suit.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I am tired of the ASSUMPTION that the HOA needs a court order and sheriff protection to enter a property. That simply is NOT true in all cases or in most. That is because in many cases the HOA is responsible for maintaining/restricting the outside appearances of homes. (We are NOT talking internal or condo's here). It is in the documents and obvious reason why there are restrictions and an ACC...Plus it is most likely on COMMON GROUND which is shared property of ALL the owners/HOA. Meaning any owner can walk across any yard at any time they please. Now there is areas of "Exclusive use" for freedom of landscaping and such but even those are open to all of the HOA.

My HOA you owned the house and the lot the house sat on. Outside of that it was common area. Plus we could enforce paint colors, use of vinyl siding, fences, windows, garage conversions, and doors. All of which did NOT require any court order or sheriff. The HOA managed that space as per our restrictions allowed. So we could hire a contractor to fix a violation and send the owner a bill.

Do NOT assume a HOA can't walk onto your property and fix a violation. You are assuming a bit too much and having alot of wishful thinking....

Former HOA President
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Lawrence:
I disagree with Melissa about entering property and fixing something. There are trespass laws and if a homeowner calls the police and tells them a contractor is trespassing on his property, the police will ask the contractor to leave. Before entering anyone's property you must get a court order proving that you have the right to enter that property.

Regarding the effectiveness of fines, I've seen Boards take the offender to small claims court to collect the fines. This sometimes is enough of a nuisance for the homeowner that they then comply.
Jeanne
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/09/2012 4:34 AM
I am tired of the ASSUMPTION that the HOA needs a court order and sheriff protection to enter a property.

In Georgia we have a Castle Doctrine law, which allows the use of deadfly force in defense of one's home (Official Code of Georgia Annotated section 16-3-23).

If a contractor hired by the association started tearing down a part of someone's house in the community, without permission from the owner or a court order, the law says that the homeowner could shoot them dead.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Lawrence:

Not sure what the law is here in NY but as President of my association I would NEVER direct any contractor to perform work on a house or unit without proper legal authority and IMO police presence. IMO simply the prudent thing to do. Here many folks don't bother to read the law they might shoot first and then find out if it was legal to do so. At the very least you might have some teeth knocked out.

You would be placing not only the property but the contractor in a potentially serious and harmful situation. I would not put any of the contractors that serve our property in that position.

Several years ago we had a water leak in a unit where the owner was away in Florida. We isolated the source to this unit and I instructed the MC to call the local police, I contacted a locksmith and we entered the unit with the police present. The problem was fixed the unit secured and the police left.

To advise otherwise is IMO simply nonsense both legally and realistically.

As to this matter I would continue to fine the unit owner for the violation, if in fact this is a matter worth enforcing, and let that bill increase over time and not consider going to court for the legal system to force compliance. Simply to costly.

Good luck.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lawrence

You said $10K for lawsuit. You also said once can do a forclosure based on unpaid liens.

Our HOA has had discussion with a large law/collection firm about collecting unpaid HOS dues. They use a multi step process to collect. It will go like this:

1. HOA writes a letter reminding the person and asks for back dues or a payment schedule acceptable to the HOA with in 30 days. No threat. Polite letter.

2. HOA writes a 2nd letter saying if back dues not paid or a payment schedule reached within 30 days, it will be turned over to a law/collection firm.

3. Law/collection firm sends a letter informing the homeowner that they have received the case and are prepared to file a lien and commence to foreclose unless owed dues are paid or a payment schedule is arranged with the HOA within 30 days. The firm charges the HOA $65.00 for this letter.

4. Law/collection firm sends a letter saying a lien has been filed and foreclosure has commenced. It will now cost the homeowner $495.00 (to the law firm) plus owed dues to the HOA to stop the process. No charge to the HOA.

5. Law/collection firm files some paperwork with the court about commencing foreclosure and notifies the homeowner that foreclosure has begun and it will cost $995.00 (to the law firm) plus back dues to the HOA to stop the process.

The next step would be the HOA pays the law firm $400.00 and foreclosure commences. The process is completely stoppable at this point by the HOA and the HOA would have a lien.

While the above applies to late dues, if you can foreclose based on fine liens, the procedure would be the same. Polite slap on the wrist letters only go so far. I am by no means advocating a foreclosure but I think you need to show more bite/threat to the violator then a few nasty letters.

Hope this helps.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
So do we approve every request just to avoid a fight? Where do you draw the line?


Laurence,
My point is........ is the issue the home modification was not approved properly? Easily fixed.
Or is the issue the modification is completely against the CCR/Bylaws? Not so easy.

There is a HUGE difference.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveM9 on 06/09/2012 8:20 AM
My point is........ is the issue the home modification was not approved properly? Easily fixed.
Or is the issue the modification is completely against the CCR/Bylaws? Not so easy.


Steve,

It's the "not so easy" part that has us flummoxed. The modification is an eyesore and the neighbors are complaining. It is a clear violation of the CCRs.
LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/09/2012 7:34 AM
Our HOA has had discussion with a large law/collection firm about collecting unpaid HOS dues. They use a multi step process to collect.

John,

Our collection process for overdue assessments is very similar and we have exercised it successfully several times.

I was astonished to find out that a covenant enforcement lawsuit differs so much from this simple process.

The lawyers must go through much more effort to prove that a covenant violation exists, than they do for simple non-payment of dues.

Our attorney will not defer the much larger cost of a covenant enforcement lawsuit, so we need to put up $10,000 up front to go to court.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Lawrence

The not getting ARC approval is one issue but I get nervous when you say "eye-sore" as beauty is in the eye of the beholder. The tough love question is are you fining based on no ARC permit but in reality it is a matter of taste?

I suggest you have to formalize this whole thing then present the facts.

1. Get several of the complainers to write letters of complaint to the BOD.

2. The BOD take it under advisement and decide a course of action. I would expect this might should be done in Executive Session with the offender invited to attend just to be sure no one can be later accused of collusion, hiding, etc.

3. If persuing it will cost money then inform fellow owners how much and that in order to persue the issue it will require an assessment and ask for their approval.

4. If the owners turn it down then they are basically saying they will not pay to settle a disagreement of taste and/or the CC&R's need to be modified.

Again the more we chat about this the more it appears to me to be a matter of taste?

De gustibus non est disputandum.

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/09/2012 9:09 AM
De gustibus non est disputandum.


John,

You are absolutely correct. It does come down to taste. There must be people out there who think plastic pink flamingos are the perfect lawn ornament.

And this is the foundation of covenant restrictions for most HOAs.

Our covenants read that, "The Architectural Review Committee shall be the sole arbiter of such plans and may withhold approval for any reason, including purely aesthetic considerations..."

So do we abandon any decisions based on taste and preferences? Do we allow the purple house with green trim? Or do we have a representative cross-section of the homeowners serve on the ARC and enforce a collective aesthetic on the neighborhood?

This goes to the heart of the purpose of an HOA.

I personally think there is value to having a set of standards -- even if they are solely based on aesthetics and subjective judgment.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/09/2012 9:09 AM

I suggest you have to formalize this whole thing then present the facts.

1. Get several of the complainers to write letters of complaint to the BOD.

2. The BOD take it under advisement and decide a course of action. I would expect this might should be done in Executive Session with the offender invited to attend just to be sure no one can be later accused of collusion, hiding, etc.

3. If persuing it will cost money then inform fellow owners how much and that in order to persue the issue it will require an assessment and ask for their approval.

4. If the owners turn it down then they are basically saying they will not pay to settle a disagreement of taste and/or the CC&R's need to be modified.


At first glance, this sounds like excellent advice.

But if you think it through then you have to conclude that in the future the CC&R's will only be enforced against those who do not fight. Is this what you really want? It's certainly not what everyone agreed to.

You and the other homeowners agreed to abide by the CC&R's. One owner refuses to do so. There really is no good reason to go back and ask the rest of the owners if they want to enforce the agreement that they already signed. The board really has no choice except to sue to the offending homeowner. If the board can levy a special assessment without member approval, do it. Otherwise, take the money from your existing funds and cut back on other expenses.

In most states, the prevailing party to a lawsuit arising from a contract can recover his costs from the loser. The CC&R's are a contract. The offending homeowner's insurance may cover the judgment against him, including the HOA's legal fees.

Lawrence, you mentioned that your association has no money for a lawsuit. Just whose fault is that? When you raised your hand and volunteered to serve on the board you accepted all the responsibilities that went along with it. Part of that is establishing reserve funds and emergency funds. No one really wants to put the bite on his neighbors for more money, but they agreed to the CC&R's and it costs money to operate so they need to pay up.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Larry

I think there are several issues going on here. One is a clear violation of the CC&R's by not passing the changes by the ARC. Another seems to more subjective as in a matter of taste concerning the changes. This leads us to the main issue of how far does/can one go to prove a point especially if that point is open to interpretation such as in matter of taste?

Even if I had the authority to put my HOA in debt/financial trouble, I could not do so with a clear conscience concerning an issue I consider could be subjective unless I had their "agreement" to do so. Afterall, the owners control. We on the BOD/Committees are here to serve them.

I know people that won every battle they ever fought but lost every war they ever fought and to this day they have not figured out what happened.

I believe the root of this issue is one where some could easily cut their nose off to spite their face.

LawrenceC1 (Georgia)
Posts: 480
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 06/09/2012 12:07 PM
You and the other homeowners agreed to abide by the CC&R's. One owner refuses to do so. There really is no good reason to go back and ask the rest of the owners if they want to enforce the agreement that they already signed. The board really has no choice except to sue to the offending homeowner.

This is exactly what our lawyer told us. He said it would be inappropriate to put enforcement of the rules to a vote or even a poll of the membership. The buck stops with the board of directors.

Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 06/09/2012 12:07 PM
In most states, the prevailing party to a lawsuit arising from a contract can recover his costs from the loser. The CC&R's are a contract. The offending homeowner's insurance may cover the judgment against him, including the HOA's legal fees.

We can in Georgia recover court costs and lawyer's fees from the defendant, but we do have to put up the money in advance. I will look into your idea that the homeowner's insurance policy could pay us if we win a judgment.

Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 06/09/2012 12:07 PM
you mentioned that your association has no money for a lawsuit. Just whose fault is that?

Guilty as charged. We do work from a comprehensive reserve study and have money set aside for capital repairs. We budget operating expenses well, and have a contingency fee of a few thousand dollars. This has been enough in the past for the relatively small legal fees we need to follow up on the occasional late payers of assessments.

What we never anticipated is having to put out $10,000 or more in order to pursue a covenant enforcement lawsuit. We just don't have that much in the contingency fund. And it is a question whether as fiduciaries of the members' money if we should spend that much with no guarantee that we will win in court, and then no guarantee that we can collect a penny of the judgment.

It may help with this decision if we can verify that the homeowner's insurance will cover any judgment in our favor.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Now for the bad news about attorney's fees.

Most contracts, including CC&R's, provide that in the event of a lawsuit that the prevailing party will pay the other party's costs. Most state laws provide the same thing for contract disputes. The provision for attorney's fees is often stated as "reasonable attorney fees."

Despite the contractual and statutory provisions, the trial court judge usually has a lot of discretion in deciding whether to actually award attorney fees and in what amounts. Among other factors are the relative wealth of the parties and whether the litigation could have been avoided as well as the judge's own personal prejudices and biases. Attorney fees are probably the biggest crap shoot of all in a lawsuit. Unless there is a clear abuse of discretion, appellate courts usually will not overrule the trial judge's award (or lack of award) of attorney fees.

I would think that if the HOA has tried to work with the offending homeowner and he has refused all attempts at gettin him to comply with the CC&R's that a judge would find that the litigation was unavoidable. Ditto if the homeowner chooses to fight it out in court.

As always, though, your attorney's advice will trump mine.

BTW, I lost the biggest lawsuit that I was ever involved in. The prevailing party asked for over $150,000 in attorney fees. The judge awarded them zero. A large factor was that the case had been dismissed in its early stages, I won an appellate court ruling stating that the case had to go to trial, and most of the other party's costs were overkill in preparing the case for trial. If they had offered me that $150,000 to settle I would have taken it but the other party hired an attorney with a reputation for litigating everything. For example, in a pre-trial hearing in the judge's chambers I stated that an event had occurred on an indefinite date during the spring and the the opposing counsel correctly pointed out that the event occurred in February; he then wasted a lot of the court's time arguing over the irrelevant point of whether February in Phoenix is springtime. I am sure that the attorney's combative disposition had a lot to do with the judge's decision to award the other side nothing.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Larry

As you said:

*****BTW, I lost the biggest lawsuit that I was ever involved in. The prevailing party asked for over $150,000 in attorney fees.*****

Are you a licensed to practice atorney and if so, what state(s)?

Thanks
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 06/10/2012 3:41 PM

Are you a licensed to practice atorney and if so, what state(s)?

No, I am not an attorney. I have represented myself for the last 35+ years. I should have made it clearer that I was the plaintiff in the case I referred to.

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