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BethS1 (New York)
Posts: 28
Posted:
The President and Vice President REFUSE to come up with the past year's bank statements, how do we go about calling them on it. We requested in an email that they are to brought to the next meeting for review due to dicrepancies with the last board, which the Vice was on.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated. We live under a couple condo commandos!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Beth, what State are you in? Many have laws specific to this issue. In the mean time I would write a letter to the MC or BOD requesting the documents in question, your CC&R's may have this procedure spelled out. Keep the letter professional do not make any accusations or threats, request an answer in writing.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BethS1 (New York)
Posts: 28
Posted:
We aren't interested in suing or threatening, we just want to account for this money the ones in question actually brought up so that we have a clean start for the new board. To us, any unexplained spending or missing deposits have to be verified and "if" any missing funds are found then we have to go after the person responsible. The one who make me wonder was on the board and she's stalling us all the time and even asked the attorneys about using the HOA's insurance to cover any losses, rather than get the statements. So she's brought on the questions with her actions. This has been going on over 5 months! Wouldn't Non-Profits (HOA'S) have to have a accurate financial statement? They took a loan out and can't even produce a transaction history!!
RonaldW (South Carolina)
Posts: 901
Posted:
I would think the CC&Rs or the Bylaws would spell out the responsibilities of the board and record keeping requirements. Are you on the BOD? Bring it up at the next meeting. If not, check the CC&Rs and bylaws. You are probably allowed to inspect the financial records "during reasonable business hours". If a phone call won't do it, send the board a letter.

Ron
SC
JoeS4 (Kentucky)
Posts: 77
Posted:
tell them to either produce the documents or you will go to the bank and pay to have copies made and bill it to the association, you can't have a HOA with cancelled checks, sometimes you can pull them offline from your bank. Of course I'm assuming that your on the board, if not draft a letter requesting the documents you want and be willing to pay for copies.

Good Luck
GloriaM (North Carolina)
Posts: 829
Posted:
Beth:

Your state law Planned Community Act should provide that Owners can request in writing 1-week's notice to review the financial statements. Document a letter requesting that appointment, pointing to your states Planned Community Act Law and if they do not comply, I would place a call to your State's Attorney General for their failure to comply with your state's Act. An old saying, "If you have nothing to hide, you hide nothing"
BethS1 (New York)
Posts: 28
Posted:
I am on the BOD, they have been sent 3 emails, polite and directly asking for the records. The emails went to their board emails and the HOA's main email address, along with our website on the discussion forum for Directors (only).

The officers and the treasurer have not acknowledged anything. I requested the statements to be brought to the next board meeting because all 6 members can look at them. The VP has access to the bank as the ONLY signer and she stalls, she was on the prior board. This has been going on over a year, and since October with our new board. They have this little clique group going and they act like the rest of us don't know about it.

I personally will make sure if they don't show up with them that it is documented in the minutes, but I'm interested if there is anything else I can do to apply pressure to them. I know of 2 other BOD members that are fed up with their lack of action too.
LanceT (Alabama)
Posts: 121
Posted:
Here's the problem with HOA boards or HOA's in general. The problem is that HOA members be it board or general, forget that the HOA money is made up of EVERYONE's money. A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members FOR it's members. The BOARD is ELECTED to REPRESENT the general members needs/desires.
What does this all mean to you and seeing the financial records? It means that those financial records are NOT just for the board's view/control but it is also ALL the members to see. The money spent in those records is yours and your neighbors money. That is why it is your right to view these records.
However, I do want to EXCLUDE COLLECTION records as part of the general membership right to review. A member should be able to view their OWN payment record but NOT of their neighbors.
The best scenerio for what is happening is: Are you a parent? If so, do you let your children see your bank statements? If your children asked, would you allow them? The HOA board is acting much like the "parent" and the general members like the "children". Children are part of the family (association)and a majority of where the household money is being spent.
So as a parent, would you find it difficult to turn over your financial records and allow your children to view? Especially if you know that you may have a charge for intimate lingerie? It's going to take alot of work to convince them to release the records. It means things are going to have to change. The member will now have more power and control of where the money is going. The board will be forced to provide explainations to the members and more approval. So your looking at a "Cultural change" in the end.

Recovering Ex-President of a HOA
PatrickH (California)
Posts: 204
Posted:
Hi Beth,

Whenever you figure all this out, I'd strongly suggest that you set up your HOA's checking account so that ALL Board members are on the signature card and TWO Board members must sign every check.

Having just one person on the signature card and being authorized to sign all the checks is risky. The obvious problem is the possibility of them getting their hands on the HOA's money, the other problem is the possibility of them getting incapacitated or dropping dead and then having no one authorized to sign the checks.

You should also have the bank statements at every Board meeting so everyone knows what's going on with the financials. The financials are probably the most important responsibility of the Board, so those documents should be available at every meeting.

KathleenA1 (Ohio)
Posts: 2
Posted:
We have been members of a homeowner's association for over 10 years and the Board/officers of our HOA have never submitted a financial statement, budget, record of spending, bank statement, or any records what so ever of how our HOA fees are being spent. We tried to boycott the fees but were threatened with a lien on our home so we paid. The officers are always from the same block and are friends (clique) they have elections when most of us are at work and have even chaged the by- laws even though many of s never voted on them. They have hired an arrogant attorney to which I have gone "round" with at meetings. We are very concerned there has been some inappropriete spending and there are many of us ho would like to review all records for the past 10 years. Is this possible?
KathleenA1 (Ohio)
Posts: 2
Posted:
we are in Ohio and I plan on requested all records pr the new Law that was past last year. However, if they refuse can we file motion to compel in a lower court? Or how else can we compel thm to comply?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Kathleen,

It's typically best to start a new thread than to resurrect a thread that is over three years old.

To answer your question:

Per Ohio code 1702.15 and per Ohio code 5312.07 a member of the Association has a right to examine the Association Records. You need to submit a written request to your board and it should specify what documents you would like to see.

There are limitations in what you are allowed to examine. These include:
(1) Information that pertains to property-related personnel matters;

(2) Communications with legal counsel or attorney work product pertaining to potential, threatened or pending litigation, or other property-related matters;

(3) Information that pertains to contracts or transactions currently under negotiation, or information that is contained in a contract or other agreement containing confidentiality requirements and that is subject to those requirements;

(4) Information that relates to the enforcement of the declaration, bylaws, or rules of the owners association against other owners;

(5) Information, the disclosure of which is prohibited by state or federal law.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Beth:

Go to the bank where the account is held and speak with the branch manager. Find out what documents the bank will want for the new board to take control of the account away from the president. I would assume that the bank will want to see -- at the very least -- a corporate resolution signed by a majority of the board members.

If I was a member of your BOD I would inform the president that she has 24 hours to produce the records or I will call the police. If she failed to produce the records I would not hesitate for a second to file criminal charges against her. The best explanation that makes sense for her stalling is that she has converted at least some of the money for her personal use.

You wrote "We aren't interested in suing or threatening." Wrong answer! When you accepted a position on your BOD you assumed a fiduciary duty to your member-owners. You have a duty to recover the records and funds by any lawful means. You indicated that you have been trying to obtain the records for five months. One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same things with the expectation of different results. Why do you think that not suing or threatening for one more month will yield different results? If you want to run an HOA sometimes you gotta kick some ass!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/25/2011 9:23 PM
Beth:
If she failed to produce the records I would not hesitate for a second to file criminal charges against her.

You shouldn't accuse anyone of criminal actions without some sort of proof. Refusing to provide documents is typically not proof of criminal activity.

Additionally, I believe it's the State that would file "criminal" charges.

If records are not produced, one could seek civil relief through the courts.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Larry,

After I posted, I realized that we're discussing a thread that's over three years old.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Oops! Tim, you mentioned the old thread in your first reply to Kathleen and I failed to catch on that she was responding to a thread from 2007.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 10/25/2011 9:40 PM
Posted By LarryB13 on 10/25/2011 9:23 PM
Beth:
If she failed to produce the records I would not hesitate for a second to file criminal charges against her.


You shouldn't accuse anyone of criminal actions without some sort of proof. Refusing to provide documents is typically not proof of criminal activity.

Additionally, I believe it's the State that would file "criminal" charges.

If records are not produced, one could seek civil relief through the courts.

Despite this being an old thread, I want to respond to the above as there are many situations that this could apply to.

In the situation described, the president had taken personal and exclusive control of the HOA bank account and, after numerous requests, failed to produce the records and funds for the new board. There may be many reasons for the president's failure to produce the records. One strong possibility is that she had stolen the money. The best "proof" would be the records but since she has exclusive control over them, the proof would have to come from circumstantial evidence. In this case, the money and records belong to the HOA, the money and records are missing, the president has exclusive control of the money and records, she refused to turn over the funds and the records to the rightful owner, and she offered no explanation as to where the money and records are. Every day someone somewhere is convicted entirely on circumstantial evidence.

You are correct that the state files the criminal charges with the court. That does not happen, however, until someone files a criminal complaint with a law enforcement agency.

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