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RonA1 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
My HOA is struggling, as I am sure many others are, with continuing good governance and at the same time be compliant with the new no-email rule in California. (Briefly the law is: a majority of the Board can not congregate to discuss HOA business without a formal meeting announcement. Email is now considered a form of congregation.) In the past many day-to-day decisions were discussed and solved with email. We understand this has to change. But how best to do this?

The new Board President came up with a plan. He created 5 committees (landscaping, roofs, etc.) each with one member. (In theory there could be more than one but it's hard enough to get even this many volunteers!) Each committee report to him on a continuing basis, and than reports to the rest of the Board and HOA members at the monthly HOA meeting.

This approach appears to be both in compliance with the letter of the law and contravenes the intent of the law.

It is in compliance because: the committees are mostly one Board member. When that Board member communicates with the President (as most do almost daily, and sometime even more frequently) there are two Board members discussing HOA business. The Board has 5 members, so 2 members discussing business in legal.

It contravenes the law because: There are now only two persons in the loop in deliberation of HOA issues. Only one Board member, the President, has knowledge of all the issues. Yes, there is a report out at monthly meetings, but these meetings are not long enough to present, absorb, think about, and discuss all the details. The other Board members are left with little choice but accept the reports and their recommendations. If they disagree with any recommendation they can of course vote against, but will probably not have the time to propose alternatives and compromises. Their negative vote is thus not constructive governance.

The California law, while intending to foster greater transparency in HOAs may have this unintended consequence. Compliance with the law may foster greater secrecy. Before there were at least five individuals in the loop, now only two.

What are your thoughts? Are other HOAs confronting this conflict? What options are there for brining back open communications among all the Board members? Once solution may be to post all communications on a Blog or Forum, open to all. Any other options?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
The California law, while intending to foster greater transparency in HOAs may have this unintended consequence. Compliance with the law may foster greater secrecy. Before there were at least five individuals in the loop, now only two.

I agree with the above. Typical head up the butt response from one trying to cure the problem without really understanding it.

Same as many posters out hee....LOL
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
I wish that you'd re-read your own post. You are keeping board members out of the loop with your new "process". You are attempting to cut out debate and input.

Two people should NOT be huddling together to come up with ONE solution to an issue, and then put that up for a vote.

The job of a committees is to come up with OPTIONS to an issue and give those recommendations to the board. At discussion time, the board should have input, get questions answered, and make recommendations.

I'd have so much more respect if there was more than one person on the "committee.' Where are the rest of your HOA members?

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Susan

I do not know if your post was to me or not but I am agreeing with the poster that said this type action while trying to open things up, could actually close them down.

I am one that believes in openness, candidness, and truthfulness. What I did say/mean was that many thinking they are helping are actually hurting as they did not think things through.

This CA rule/law, etc. is a classic example.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
As both a Property Manager and Board member, I struggle with trying to understand the reasoning behind the new law. We all know that the same legislators that created these new bills don't follow the same procedure in how they conduct state business.

In our Association, as many that don't have their own clubhouse, it has become very difficult to reserve a facility at a moments notice to discuss Association business. Being a somewhat large HOA with 317 homes there are a number of issues that meeting face to face is necessary as unfortunately e-mail just doesn't cut it.

More than anything, I don't want to spend 2 1/2 hours at a Board meeting discussing one item. As an recent example, we have had a rash of mailbox break-ins. Someone has a USPS key to open all of our mailboxes. That key also opens our front gates. So we need to discuss new security measures which could take five hours of discussion. These discussions doesn't involve anything listed under the "approved" topics for executive session so open session it is. My suggestion would be for the five directors to meet as a group and develop a plan that then can be summarized to the homeowners in an open session.

But these are the same lawmakers that gave us a $40B deficit.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> I struggle with trying to understand the reasoning behind the new law.

(Speaking as a former CA resident) this is not the first time California has shot itself in the foot, in fact it seems to do so on a regular basis. Remarkable for a state with so many high-technology companies, presumably full of smart people.

Perhaps a partial solution in this case is to make it known that the desired strength of the committees is three (or so) and that volunteers are always encouraged.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
What size is your HOA, Ron? Do you have a property manager who could prepare board packets containing the business that the board needs to discuss at the monthly meetings, which directors could receive in advance of the meeting to prepare themselves? We directors get ours about a week before the meeting.

Meantime, I share Susan's concern and don't like the president being so central to and privy all recommendations

The new law does permit us to take action without a meeting online, but only in cases of emergency. It actually sounds like Richard's locks/gate keys issue would qualify. If bids are involved, Richard could, of course, have the board meet in executive session.

We did call a Special Meeting of the Board last week, gave the proper 4-day notice, and decided on a vinyl flooring choice for a common area. We normally would've waited till next month's meeting, but needed to order it right away as it was being discontinued. Previously, we would've taken action without a meeting, but it was no hardship meeting for 5 minutes.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 1,767
Posted:
Carol,

I would have to disagree with you on taking action without meeting in an emergency. Section 1363.05 (j) states:

(j)

(1) The board of directors shall not take action on any item of business outside of a meeting.

(2) (A) Notwithstanding Section 7211 of the Corporations Code, the board of directors shall not conduct a meeting via a series of electronic transmissions, including, but not limited to, electronic mail, except as specified in subparagraph (B).

(B) Electronic transmissions may be used as a method of conducting an emergency meeting if all members of the board, individually or collectively, consent in writing to that action, and if the written consent or consents are filed with the minutes of the meeting of the board. Written consent to conduct an emergency meeting may be transmitted electronically.

You can conduct an emergency meeting via email, but action can only be taken in a properly noticed executive or general session.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Can you use a public forum/message board that everyone can see to discuss, then use a formal meeting to make a decision?
RonA1 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
To Richard, Carol, Fred, and John

Thank you all for your inputs. This is my first post on this forum and I am absolutely amazed and the number of replies in this short a time.

To Carol: we are 92 units. We have a property manager that prepares packets as yours. However packets do not necessarily include the full committee reports. Those reports may be dropped on the Board at the meeting. You gave me a good idea on this point. Thanks.

Fred: 3 members to a committee - great idea! Difficult to accomplish but something to strive for.

I would like to pursue other workable ideas. The CA law as some of you say is difficult to understand. But since we have little power to change it I am wondering what can we do within the law. I am looking at how a HOA blog and forum could be used to create more openess and candidness (as John says). I suggest that committees report all their activities on the forum (not 1 on 1 with the Pres). Then all Board members and everyone else can follow. Very open! I have already broached this idea. Some object to this format on the following grounds ....

--- This excludes people without computers
--- Still violating law if 3 or more Board members participate in a forum discussion

I can ignore these arguments. I am searching for counter arguments or solutions, or better yet true and tested examples of HOAs committees reporting online.

Again, many thanks for taking an interest in my post. I have gathered a list of suggestions to pursue.
RonA1 (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
OOOOOPS..... typo in my reply. This is correct:

I can NOT ignore these arguments. I am searching for counter arguments or solutions, or better yet true and tested examples of HOAs committees reporting online.
CarolR11 (Colorado)
Posts: 2,563
Posted:
Our Committees must comprise 3 members. Their reports are due to the PM about 10 days ahead of our regular meetings and are included in our directors packets. This way, directors have the opportunity (usually 6-7 days) to consider them.

If committees make recommendations for which they seek board approval, these are, in fact, agenda items. Our Finance Committee, for example, recs approving the "financials," and often investments. In Calif., since 1/08, only items on agendas that have been publicly posted 72 hrs. in advance of a regular meeting may be discussed at that meeting.

Our Building Committee often makes recs for expenditures from reserves or the operation budget. Some its recs really require directors to take a look at an area prior to the regular meeting, e.g., a formica bar surface that the committee wanted to replace with granite in a community room.

Richard, both our MC's attorney and our HOA attorney state that the board may still take action (vote) without a meeting in emergencies. They may vote as per (B) in your posts. As in the past, the topic and the written consents are included in our next regular meeting of the board.

Our 7-member board has complied with the spirit of the Open Meeting Act by rarely making decisions online for the past 4 years. It's not difficult meeting once a month and conducting our business at a meeting where all owners can truly see and hear us deliberate. It's true that our regular meetings last about 2 hours.(We're a 200+ unit twin tower high rise with lotsa staff, a complex infrastructure, and also are dealing with settlement funds, proposals, from a construction defect lawsuit, so our board has plenty on our table)
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
The reason for the new California law is to prevent secret meetings. We've had a lot of those in my very small HOA (10 units).

If some people do not have Internet access, then you need to make Internet access available at certain times in a common area.

Committees should always have more than one person. Three is a good size and with 92 units, the goal should be maximum involvement.

Day-to-day operations and emergency operations should not be affected by this new law.
JM10 (California)
Posts: 503
Posted:
It's great to see that some HOA really can work and I have to say I'm jealous. Transparency is the key. Being reasonable is another.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
Emails should help facilitate a smooth regular (and public) meeting and this includes sharing information on upcoming business. The solving of problems via email votes is secretive, if only by accident.

I don't think the California law is to restrict communication at any level between board meetings. That's an overly conservative interpretation in my opinion, but that's very easy for me to say here on the East Coast, I'll admit.

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