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PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

02/19/2007 5:50 AM
RobinS1: A management firm is not necessarily needed for all communities--only those who seem to be in financial trouble by not being competent enough to manage their own. This is not pointing a finger--just being realistic to know when the Board needs help--after all, there are few of us who have had previous experience in the actual money management of community living. A reputable management company is a great resource for Board Members who do not and cannot know all. And, after all, it is the Board who is answerable to the residents as to how well they are spending the dollars coming in each month--and are 'we' getting the most for our money. Roger, maybe its time to point us in the direction of all the benefits a mgmt. company offers--actual tasks an assn. can assign to a mgmt. company. I seem to remember your post sometime ago on this issue. Thanks. PaulM

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

02/19/2007 7:27 AM
Posted By PaulM on 02/19/2007 5:50 AM Roger, maybe its time to point us in the direction of all the benefits a mgmt. company offers--actual tasks an assn. can assign to a mgmt. company. I seem to remember your post sometime ago on this issue. Thanks. PaulM Attached is a link to our sample management agreement. It lists our servcies offered. We often save HOAs more than we are paid. This is accomplished by decreasing expenses for contractors, legal, management fees, insurance; and increasing income from assessments and investments. Convenant compliance and guidance to the Board on proper procedures to follow are important items a good managing Agent will provide.
Attachment: 1219275881871.doc
Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

02/19/2007 7:45 AM
JohnR4 & RobinS1: If you refer to the document Roger noted, you will see the many benefits a management company can provide a community on behalf of their Board. It does not absolve the Board, however, from seeing that all is done according to your community's covenant documents. For JohnR4 who posted the original question, if you note point D on page 2 it explains accounting reports. These reports are vital in knowing, at any given time, how your community is fixed financially. Good Luck, JohnR4, in your quest for a solution to your monthly dues situation. Thank you, Roger. PaulM PaulM

TeresaG1
(California)

Posts:3

02/20/2007 1:51 PM
We are new condo owners and our HOA's are an unbelievable $342.00. Yes!. What can you do about this?. Pinole,Ca. I have no Ideal what goes were and about how much. It's about 75 units. I pool that is inopperable and will continue to be. Our meetings are on nights that I can not attend. Help me understand this new system. I am a complete virgin to this me and my husband.

RobinS1
(Louisiana)

Posts:10

02/21/2007 6:39 PM
Theresa, I dont know much, but I am a new president of a new neighborhood. I have found out that this is YOUR home owners association and you can DEMAND a print out of expenses to see where every penny of your money as well as your neighbors is going. A lot of people dont attend, and they have to show everyone and anyone where money is going. So, dont go with the flow, learn your rights and be conscious of your money and find out where it is going.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1373

02/21/2007 11:18 PM
Teresa, before you "DEMAND" you might simply try "requesting" the documents you desire from the Board or MC. I'm sure they will be more receptive and much more likely to help you and point you in the right direction rather than if you storm into the office and start demanding things, as my mama used to say: "You'll catch more flies with honey than you will with vinegar." Now, if they are not forth coming, then you let them know that you have an absolute right to the document. Be aware that they have a right to charge you a reasonable copying fee and for the time it takes to prepare the documents and postage upfront, so be prepared for that. There are a couple of websites I would recommend besides this one. Click on the link at the right to Community Associations Network and http://www.davis-stirling.com/

JoyceS1
(Indiana)

Posts:107

02/22/2007 5:13 AM
Theresa: When I read your post, my initial thought was "Wow, I wish our homeowners would, at the very least, LOOK at the financial data that is provided them." We have a small group of people who believe that money for services magically drops down from the sky. A few years ago, I examined our financial situation. I became actively involved when I saw the writing on the wall. Since my involvement, I have had sleepless nights wondering how we are going to catch up on funding the maintenance not to mention funding the reserves. It has been frutrating trying to educate people who do not want to be educated about the HOA finances. Maybe those who do not access their HOA financial information are better off than those of us who have scrutinized it. They probably sleep better at night! Every homeowner has a right to know where the money is going. They are equally responsible for understanding the HOA lifestyle they chose and what it takes to maintain the HOA services. Just my two cents worth. Oh, wait.....I don't have two cents to spare! (smile) Joyce

TeresaG1
(California)

Posts:3

02/22/2007 2:13 PM
Thanks to all. I will keep you posted on everything when I receive the paper work. This is all very much good information that I do plan to use in a respectful manor. And to ask for it and no to demand it. Thanks again.! until then.

KevinC2
(Michigan)

Posts:15

02/25/2007 10:27 AM
Hey Everyone...I am new to HOATalk and have been looking for a site like this for a while. I have recently been appointed to my association's board after only 12 months of residency. I live in a 24-unit complex with value of the condos ranging from $90k to $180k, located in metro Detroit (MI). The complex is split into two different buildings with 12-units in each building. We have two separate pools (small) and parking spaces for each unit. Guests park on the street. Included with our dues are heat and water (and electricity for the common areas). We are not currently placing any money into our reserves and currently do not have enough revenue to meet our expenses. I am an accountant/auditor by profession and was floored when I realized the true financial state of the association. I currently pay $200 per month and the highest dues in my association are $368. We have constantly had talks of raising dues, but everyone already feels we pay too much. The complex used to be apartments and was cosmetically re-done by a developer in 2002 (only on the inside). Our common areas continue to deteriorate and in the next 5 years we are looking at roughly $50,000 in improvements. Since the board was put in place, there has been very poor financial management and no consideration for the common areas of the association that used to be in good condition, but have weathered. I hope to use the information from this thread to present to the co-owners at a special meeting the board has called in a few months.

Kevin Board President The Courtyards Association

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1373

02/27/2007 1:40 AM
KevinC2 you might also use the search feature on the main page and put in the word reserves for many interesting posts on this subject.

RandalR
(Tennessee)

Posts:82

03/05/2007 7:09 PM
PaulM: Our 20-year old association is voluntary in that the 263 households can decide on a yearly basis whether they want to pay dues or not. The HOA is run by a 7-person Board with no outside help. I'm probably the only person that's ever taken the time to try and educate themselves on how HOA's are supposed to be run, and ours has much to learn from the rest of you! The Board is currently trying to transition to a mandatory status that would require all households to pay HOA dues. In the scheme of things it's a good direction to be going in though I don't support it because the revised covenants give the BOD way too much authority such as being able to change the Bylaws by a simple vote of the BOD. They can essentially do about anything they want without having to be accountable to the residents. The funny thing is that one homeowner had his attorney threaten a lawsuit if a lien were ever filed against their property. The HOA is run so haphazardly that my money would be on the resident winning any suit. So now the revised covenants have a clause that liens can only be filed against "new" residents that move into the neighborhood. Only the new residents will be under the mandatory aspect of HOA dues, for the rest of us it's business as usual. This years all inclusive fee of $215 just happens to be the same amount that's being thrown about as the annual fee under the revised covenants (which have not passed and are still be voted on almost a year later). It's got residents confused into thinking that the covenants actually did pass and that dues are now mandatory! If 250 of the 263 household actually joined and paid then the HOA would raise the money they need to cover annual operations. In reality I project that only 180-190 households will actually join for various reasons. Even in a good year with dues set at $130/yr we could only get 220 households to join and that was before throwing the recreation area into the mix, the funding of which is a really touchy subject with those that don't want to pay for something they'll never use. We have a ~$56K reserve and half of it is going to be blown in the first year of this stupid experiment! Our only other source of income to offset this deficit is the associate memberships to our pool/tennis area that we sell to people outside the neighborhood. Just to make the associate memberships more appealing, we're going to continue to close our pool weekdays from 5pm-7pm so the swim team can have a convenient evening practice time for those kids that are too lazy to get up for early practices like all the other swim teams in the town do! In a way I'm glad I wasn't reelected to another term. At least I won't have to explain why the experiment chewed up 1/2 our reserve and didn't quite work out the way everyone was told it would. R

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

03/06/2007 6:37 AM
[quote]Posted By RandalR on 03/05/2007 7:09 PM The Board is currently trying to transition to a mandatory status that would require all households to pay HOA dues. In the scheme of things it's a good direction to be going in though I don't support it because the revised covenants give the BOD way too much authority such as being able to change the Bylaws by a simple vote of the BOD. They can essentially do about anything they want without having to be accountable to the residents. The funny thing is that one homeowner had his attorney threaten a lawsuit if a lien were ever filed against their property. The HOA is run so haphazardly that my money would be on the resident winning any suit. So now the revised covenants have a clause that liens can only be filed against "new" residents that move into the neighborhood. Only the new residents will be under the mandatory aspect of HOA dues, for the rest of us it's business as usual. [/quote] Randal, regarding giving the Board sole authority to approve amendments to the By-laws I don't think it is a good idea. I suggest deleting all details regarding governing aspects of the HOA from the CC&Rs and placing them in the By-laws. The By-laws could include "These By-laws may be amended at a duly called meeting of the members where at least 2/3 of those members voting have voted to approve the proposed amendments."

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

NancyM2
(California)

Posts:149

03/09/2007 8:06 AM
575 single family homes Orange County, Calif 80 acers of greenbelt to maintain no other aminities resurves fully funded expensive "in house" attorney 160K a yaer Ombudsman 86K a year NancyM2

NancyM2
(California)

Posts:149

03/09/2007 8:05 PM
See last post ~~I forgot to add our dues are $150.00 a month NancyM2

RandalR
(Tennessee)

Posts:82

03/10/2007 4:52 AM
RogerB - I think I'm getting too far off topic for this forums subject so I'm going to start a separate post later to see how other BOD's handle their meetings. See you there. R

RudyR1
(Oklahoma)

Posts:1

07/30/2007 8:22 PM
Looks like this thread is petering out so let me add my little bit. I have been the treasurer for 6 years for our 48 unit, homeowner managed, Townhome association that is located in SW Oklahoma. (www.evoa.us) Six years ago, the previous treasurer submitted a budget and stated -I don't know how we are going to pay the bills next year, maybe we won't paint one of our units-(thats what got me the treasurers job, as I didn't believe we were in such sorry shape. We were!) We are by no means financially well, our current dues are $92 per month but, provided lawn care/maintenance/tree trimming for our 2.6 acre common area. We also maintain a pool during the summer months (it gets really cold in the winter). We also do non-structural repairs (wood replacement) and painting once every 6 years (we do not do roofs, downspouts, brick, windows, etc). Current annual expenses are about $12K for common area, $12K for paint, $8-10K for wood replacement, $5K for pool, $2K insurance, $2.5K utilities. Thats the big ticket items. We also manage a well for our sprinkler system. Our dues increases are limited to 10% per year unless 75% of the people vote for a higher increase. The cry of fixed income usually comes into play every year. Owners understand all costs are increasing due to inflation but believe that shouldn't apply to this association. In reality, by shopping around for services we managed to build up a $24K reserve but that will be gone when our drive is repaved/patched next month. That only took 4 years of close management of our funds to get ahead. Being part of this board has been really interesting and I have and will continue to enjoy it. The biggest complaint is the apathy among the homeowners. At a standard monthly meeting we have about 4-8 people in the audience. The annual meeting drives a lot higher number because we have elections during that meeting. Really just wanted to jump in and do a post. Maybe this will generate additional comments.

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/07/2007 5:54 PM
I am located in Northridge, CA. we have about about 21 buildings 192 units could be more. Our dues varies from $194.66-$245.17 per month. I pay $267.81 per mo. with the new 20% retroactive charge due to unexpected costs to operate our Association in 2007 per Notice received. The new retroactive amounts are to be payed over the next 4 months. Many Home Owners are very upset because last year we were increased 15% now is 20%. I've being living at this location for the past 6 years and the management company does not return calls, they do not reply to certified letters sent regarding the upkeep/ maintenance of the grounds. The gardener a crew of two men is the company who cleans the laundry rooms instead of a janitorial service, so you can imagine what the floor, baseboards and walls look like (disgusting). We have no pretty flowers or grass to beautify our homes, our awnings are falling apart, the sprinkler system is old and wastes a lot of water...the catwalk gets more water then the plants. The unit rear balcony wood fence are rotted through and falling apart. The management company does not allow installion of Satellite dish on the roof (we have a flat roof). We have no Access to the gym it has been closed for many years. The swimming pool was closed for an entire summer and I felt bad for the kids it is hot like hell in the valley.We requested at one of the meetings for the use of the Rec Room for home owners to discuss issued prior to meeting and we were denied on the spot. The buildings needs a complete upgrade or perhaps I should say face lift. We are very frustrated and will like to replace the management company. Can you please advise? The only things the have corrected twice was the repair of the pool after work was completed the manager realized there was a leak which should of been detected the first time so they had to break down the plaster and start all over again. No gutter replacement yet and Laundry drywall have holes which need patch repair, copper pipes remain exposed. We really need help. Looking foward to your feedback. Thank you

KathleenR
(California)

Posts:13

08/21/2007 10:40 PM
WOW! We are in Ontario, CA and pay $300 per month for a pool and jacuzzi. Nothing else!!! Makes your dues not seem so high! :o)

KathleenR
(California)

Posts:13

08/21/2007 11:14 PM
Wanda, I wasn't making light of your situation in my previous comment!Our place is not as bad as yours, but for an average of $300 per month (90 units) you'd think we were living at the beach and the PMC wants to increase to nearly $500 per month. I am a new Board Member and along with a few of the current Board Members, we are now looking into budget! Hope there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you!

StacyS1
(Louisiana)

Posts:1

08/22/2007 6:18 AM
I am the President of a HOA in Denham Springs, Louisiana, which has 557 single family homes, 73 of which I have identified as rental homes. When finished, the subdivision will have 741 homes. Last month the Developer advised that they be adding an additional filing to the subdivision (location and number of homes undetermined). The original builder (who is also a co-developer of the subdivision)sold the undeveloped or unfinished lots to a new nationwide homebuilder in March 2006, who subsequently created a second and separate HOA for the 2 undeveloped filings in October 2006. We have 7 retention ponds which have not been turned over to us yet. No land has been donated for a small playground or a mini-park. We are finishing sprinkler installation and landscaping of 4 cul-de-sac islands. We have a lighted main entrance sign, and a smaller lighted entrance sign at a 2nd entrance. There will be no clubhouse, pool, office, or any type of recreation area within the subdivision. We do not own any land, nor the streets or ditches - as the Parish (Louisiana = Parishes a/k/a County to the other 49 states!)is responsible for their maintenance and repair. Since the inception of the HOA coming together in March 2003, as the Developer included the provision in the original Restrictive Covenants in 2002, our yearly dues have been $5.00 per month/$60.00 per year. While the Developer made a provision for the right to charge $5.00 per month, the Bylaws state that an annual budget should be prepared, voted on, which would then deternmine the allocated share to each homeowner. That has yet to happen as the prior Board members really did not involve themselves enough to fully understand the provisions, governing documents, hire an association attorney, obtain D&O insurance, etc. This has been the challenge over the last 19 months for myself and the other Board members to straightout the chaos and disorganization handed over to us (more liked dumped!) and gain the support and trust of the homeowners that we are striving to get the HOA where it should be - working for all of the homeowners. Obviously with $60.00 a year, a property mamangement company is out of the question as the local ones consulted charge $4.50 to $5.00/month per lot. Yes, the dues need to go up, and in 2008 the proposed budget will reflect the reality of what we realistically need to maintain the ponds and other common areas once they become our responsibility. Stacy www.southpointsubdivision.com

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

08/22/2007 6:34 AM
Wanda, you complained about your MC but not about your Board. The Board is responsible for proper budgeting to effectively maintain the common areas and hiring and firing the MC. I suggest the Board may be your primary problem.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3701

08/22/2007 6:47 AM
Kathleen, good luck serving on your Board. It may open your eyes to all the costs involved which may justify $300.00/mo. BTW $500/mo for the management of 90 units seems low. Hope there are some perqs for the poor managing agent

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

DaneC
(California)

Posts:210

08/22/2007 1:10 PM
Wanda, it is interesting that you have been living at your complex for 6 years, because that is exactly the time span that can cause your assessments to increase by 200%. California law allows for an annual assessment increase of 20%, without approval of the membership. A $100.00 amount subjected to 4 years of 20% increases, becomes $207.36, which if subjected to 2 more years of 20% increases, becomes $298.60 You say - 1) the management company does not return calls, they do not reply to certified letters 2) The management company does not allow installation of Satellite dish on the roof 3) and will like to replace the management company. 4) We requested at one of the meetings for the use of the Rec Room for home owners to discuss issued prior to meeting and we were denied on the spot. I do not get the sense from reading your post, that you are a member of the Board (from 4 above), based on that assumption, I would say, your posting was the first step, now take the second step, and get involved with your Association's affairs. It could be that you serve on a committee, or even run for office. You did not mention, who rejected 4 above, was it the BOD or the MC rep? Item 3 (which is because of item 1) can be accomplished, since they are your employee! As far as item 2 is concerned, you can use this link for help Federal Communications Commission, Information sheet on placement of Antennas. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html As a member of the Board, you would be one of those reviewing a minimum of three contractors bids for services, so that you do not end up with gardeners in the laundry room. Since you have already identified some of the areas that need work, what do you know of the state of the association's finances - are you looking at an indefinite regime of 20% increases, and an ocassional special assessment?

Dane Clark Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Vice President, Common Interest Developments Bay Commercial Bank Learn More About our Community Assoc. Banking Programs *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 5:57 PM
All the home owners including Moi think our dues are quite high specially with the volume of units at property. For one we have no other services other then the pool man, a security service which stops at property nightly for five minutes then they leave immediatelly as if they're running from the devil and 2 gardeners who work landscape 7 days a week oh and tree trimmers once a year service. We have nothing fancy, No Ponds, no beautiful landscape, cemented down galvanized pipes which are rotted and awnings that looks like a hurricane pass through...HELLO! My neighbor Hoa range from $150-$175.00 built the same way, in the same year late 70's, c'mon their property is super nice, and pardon me for being so upset we are in LA County prime area not the desert looking at succulent plants.

NancyD1
(Florida)

Posts:447

08/22/2007 6:39 PM
18 hole golf course, 10,000 sq.ft. clubhouse, restaurant, pro shop, 6 miles of streets, 24/7 security guard on gate, pool, 4 clay tennis courts, 3 lakes, basic cable, tot lot, hot tub, water outside the home, 2x weekly trash pickup, landscaping, tree trimming, green plant replacement, MC/PM, bookkeeper, 2 maintenance people, home painting every six years, power washing homes every 3 years, new exercise facility, saunas, steam rooms, and bagel brunches every Sunday morning. The golf, restaurant and pro shop are all supported by non mandatory memberships. No equity for homeowners. We have extensive landscaped common areas throughout the community. A very, very nice community. I can say that we have a good deal. All of the above for $279/monthly. 389 homes, 11 year old community. The Maintenance Fees were reduced this year $24/yearly because we had an excess in the operating account, and we are well funded in our reserves.

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 6:48 PM
DaneC Thank you for your feedback is very well appreciated at my end. 1) In the past 5 years the MC had changed to 4 Managers, 3 of which almost had breakdowns per PM. (1a.)2006 we had a 15% increase, 2007 20% increase. 10 years ago prior to my movein 2001 there was no increase of dues maybe that's why the property looks like hell, somehow down the line maybe 15 year budget for reserves was either calculated wrong or not calculated at all maybe someone embesseled money. (2b.)last week meeting we were faced with 5 units being a little over $20k behind dues, the thing is the Vice President says one story and the MC manager says a different story about the raise in dues. Imagine damage cost from replastering pool due to a leak that was not detected at the begining or repair work, who is paying for that? of course we are, it took the plastering company almost 10 months to come out and replaster. 2) I will investigate on the satellite dish comment. 3) The management company contract renewal is up in September 1, 2007 so we may have to go on a month to month contract is is dueable until we get another MC on board that is in the works. The management company per last meeting fired the accounting company they sub work to because for the past years a lot of things apparently went wrong, no one knew about it until recently and per above comment on (2b.) is one of the reasons why are 5 units are $20K past due in association fees, nothing was done by MC????? only fired the Sub should this be followed by a lawsuit? 4) Rec room request for Home owners to have open discussions regarding our property was rejected by the Vice President of HOA.

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 7:06 PM
NancyD1 You are naughty...thanks for letting us know how wonderful you have it consider yourself blessed and lucky. There are four true things in this life 1)Luck: Being at the right place at the right time. 2)Blessed; with you know this person who knows this person and you are liked and loved by everyone of them 3)born; with a Silver spoon and last but not least 4) Shit or should I say self absorved; when you come accross the person who just don't give a horses ass about you, me or anyone else in this world and they just don't want to make this world a better place. I respect and love life no matter what, life is good, always! or you try to make the best out of it...but things are going to change at our HOA we have a new President on board and she's good and has done property management so were looking forward for some changes. Have a wonderful evening, darling! P.S. where are thou? in Lake Tahoe, Big Bear, Arrowhead?

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 7:09 PM
Roger The MC just fired the accounting sub, we became aware of this during last week meeting. Can you please clarify the responsability of a MC?

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 7:13 PM
There is always a light shinning bright at the end of the tunnel I can't think any other way. Your budget is based on how many years?

WandaM
(California)

Posts:19

08/22/2007 7:20 PM
NancyD1 says: The Maintenance Fees were reduced this year $24/yearly because we had an excess in the operating account, and we are well funded in our reserves. Who is you MC? Please share your secret, we need to pick up speed here. I appreciate you feedback.

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