Water meter installation

MaiaR (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

We are considering to install 'Water Meters' in every unit (31) in our apartment complex. This will help to us monitor the water usage and charge based on the consumption and cut some budget

Is any body had install meters and know what is the price of a water meter?
Is there any yearly maintenance cost involved?

Thank you

maia

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251

Posted:

I've been looking into this alternative myself. There is a company in CA that does exactly that. You can't simply install water meters in each condo because the water company will not do it. The property has one water bill from the water company.

The main issue that I have across is reduction in services. Currently our HOA pays for water and it is covered by each individual assessment. If we take water away and make people pay for their individual water bill do we need to lower the assessment? If so by how much? Should we lower it equally for everyone (our assessments are the same for everyone). I couldn't find answers to these questions and put the idea on hold.

Another practical matter is that you'll need to install multiple meters in each unit if you are a multistory condominium. Most likely you don't have individual water pipe for each unit and they are shared stack by stack

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We did this/had this. Our HOA had 1 water meter which our dues paid that bill in our dues. Each person had their own water supply of course. If they didn't pay their dues, our HOA could shut their water supply off until they paid their dues. Our collections were usually on time because of that...

However, there are many issues involved with that set up. 1 the HOA had to pay for ALL water repairs. Which was extremely expensive. If a line broke, we had to pay for it. Those repairs could cost ALOT of money and take time to find someone qualified to do it. The water company wasn't responsible except to the OTHER side of our HOA meter. Plus this condition had to be written into our CC&R's. The dues were higher because we had to cover EVERYONE's water bills/consumption AND repairs.

We went to separate water meters. That cost us about $20K with the city to install the meters. That meant each member had to pay a $350 special assessment. We also had to change our CC&R's to reflect the separate water meter change. That cost us over 2 years of approvals/votes and almost 3K in legal fees. However, this did decrease our monthly dues by about $25 a month. The city was also responsible for ALL the repairs except for the meter to the house. We did have to turn over our roads to be PUBLIC so that the PUBLIC utility could install the lines.

So there are good things and bad things about this. I liked the separate water meters over the shared one. It was cheaper in the long run but didn't allow us to force people to pay dues as fast. There are ALOT of small issues you have to address besides just the meter purchasing. Rights to the property, votes of the owners, and look at your CC*R's are just some things you need to factor in. Otherwise I believe the meters can cost about $500 or more. It depends on many factors.

Former HOA President

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

Do each of the apartments have their own shutoff valve that turns off all the water to a single apartment? If no, its likely you cant do it without re-doing most if not all of everyone's plumbing, which will be impossible.

You need a quote, call a commercial plumber.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699

Posted:

If a plumber says it is possible, you need to ask your water company about "sub-metering" or what programs they offer for setting up separate meters and billing.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Maia:

never been in this situation but would offer the following suggestions/comments:

1. Depending on your municipality I doubt they will want to meter every unit, more work for them and i think it would cost more eventually to all the end users.
2. Every unit should have it own shut off valve (I woudl hope anyway), you could in theory as someone suggested submeter it and charge accordingly.
3. An alternative if you aren't concerned about getting back your total water cost is to charge a per user fee to recoup some of the cost. Maybe you charge each unit $5 or $10 per person that lives there per month??

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251

Posted:

Melissa, what was the incentive for owners to vote for the amendment knowing that their water bill will be higher than $25 assessment reduction you introduced?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Think there were a few reasons...I dealt with the wrapping up portion of the project. The fact the HOA could no longer shut your water off if you didn't pay your dues was a bonus. Our local water rates are not that expensive. I paid less than $30 a month with most families in the $50 range... We wouldn't be subject to special assessments to cover emergency repairs. It put us at risk of raising dues constantly.

The concept of paying for other people's water use played a huge factor. Water conservation may not be priority for some...The price reduction may not fully have covered the difference but the control/freedom out weighed keeping one meter...

Former HOA President

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

I once live in a 150ish townhouse type HOA. Originally there was only one water meter and the association paid the water bill. Later a water meter was added to each unit (easy peezy as all had a basement) and then each unit paid its own water bill to the town.

Prior to the meter installation we had restrictions on water usage like no outside oses, no automobile washing, etc. Those ened when the meters were installed.

I do not remember who paid for the meter installation but my point is, it can and has been done.

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MaiaR on 01/23/2012 11:46 PM
We are considering to install 'Water Meters' in every unit (31) in our apartment complex. This will help to us monitor the water usage and charge based on the consumption and cut some budget

Is any body had install meters and know what is the price of a water meter?
Is there any yearly maintenance cost involved?

Thank you

maia

This sounds like a really bad idea.

If your units are all pretty much the same size, water usage between units will be pretty much the same. I am assuming that your units do not have lawns or landscape to be watered and that no one is washing cars in their living rooms.

If meters cost $500 each as stated above, then you are looking at spending $15,500 to find out that everyone uses an average amount of water. My guess is that it will cost a lot more to install those meters than you think. You will likely have significant excavation and demolition, new piping, and reconstruction. I would not recommend it as you could put the money to much better use.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/28/2012 8:56 AM

Posted By MaiaR on 01/23/2012 11:46 PM
We are considering to install 'Water Meters' in every unit (31) in our apartment complex. This will help to us monitor the water usage and charge based on the consumption and cut some budget

Is any body had install meters and know what is the price of a water meter?
Is there any yearly maintenance cost involved?

Thank you

maia

This sounds like a really bad idea.

If your units are all pretty much the same size, water usage between units will be pretty much the same. I am assuming that your units do not have lawns or landscape to be watered and that no one is washing cars in their living rooms.

If meters cost $500 each as stated above, then you are looking at spending $15,500 to find out that everyone uses an average amount of water. My guess is that it will cost a lot more to install those meters than you think. You will likely have significant excavation and demolition, new piping, and reconstruction. I would not recommend it as you could put the money to much better use.

I would disagree, water usage will vary based upon the number of occupants and also on their consumption habits. 3 occupants who shower twice daily will use significantly more water than one occupant who showers once a day and travels a lot. While I do agree that installing meters may not be the solution, the consuption habits of people vary greatly.

GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491

Posted:

Depending on how your Covenants are written, you may also need to amend them before installing individual meters.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions

LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradP on 01/28/2012 9:07 AM

I would disagree, water usage will vary based upon the number of occupants and also on their consumption habits. 3 occupants who shower twice daily will use significantly more water than one occupant who showers once a day and travels a lot. While I do agree that installing meters may not be the solution, the consuption habits of people vary greatly.

OK, so unit 1 and unit 2 now use $50 of water per month combined and each unit now pays $25 for their combined water use. After you spend $500 for a meter on unit 1 and another $500 for unit 2 you find that unit 1 is using only $10 and unit 2 is using $40. So unit 1 will save $15 per month but the cost of the meter means it will be 33 months before he breaks even. Unit 2 nows pay more and will never break even.

Ah, but there is now an expense to read the meters, to prepare and send the water bills, to repair the meters, and deal with the inevitable billing disputes. If the meters belong to the association, these expenses will have to be paid for by all the association members. If it works out to $5 per month, then unit 1 will take longer to break even and unit 2 just gets one more expense.

If the meters belong to the city, then you have new monkey wrenches in the machinery: minimum usage charges, sewer fees, trash collection fees. Where I live if you have a residential water meter you have to pay for sewer and trash. But if you live in a building with more than 4 units, the city will not pick up the trash but you still have to pay for it. The minimum use fee means that you pay even if you do not use. Unit 1 and Unit 2 could end up paying the same because of the minimum use fee and both would be paying more with the city meter than they did with no meter.

There are so many problems with retrofitting individual water meters and so few benefits that I still think it is a bad idea.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/28/2012 12:49 PM

Posted By BradP on 01/28/2012 9:07 AM

I would disagree, water usage will vary based upon the number of occupants and also on their consumption habits. 3 occupants who shower twice daily will use significantly more water than one occupant who showers once a day and travels a lot. While I do agree that installing meters may not be the solution, the consuption habits of people vary greatly.

OK, so unit 1 and unit 2 now use $50 of water per month combined and each unit now pays $25 for their combined water use. After you spend $500 for a meter on unit 1 and another $500 for unit 2 you find that unit 1 is using only $10 and unit 2 is using $40. So unit 1 will save $15 per month but the cost of the meter means it will be 33 months before he breaks even. Unit 2 nows pay more and will never break even.

Ah, but there is now an expense to read the meters, to prepare and send the water bills, to repair the meters, and deal with the inevitable billing disputes. If the meters belong to the association, these expenses will have to be paid for by all the association members. If it works out to $5 per month, then unit 1 will take longer to break even and unit 2 just gets one more expense.

If the meters belong to the city, then you have new monkey wrenches in the machinery: minimum usage charges, sewer fees, trash collection fees. Where I live if you have a residential water meter you have to pay for sewer and trash. But if you live in a building with more than 4 units, the city will not pick up the trash but you still have to pay for it. The minimum use fee means that you pay even if you do not use. Unit 1 and Unit 2 could end up paying the same because of the minimum use fee and both would be paying more with the city meter than they did with no meter.

There are so many problems with retrofitting individual water meters and so few benefits that I still think it is a bad idea.

reread my posts on this subject, I never said water meters were the answer, merely pointed out that consumption habits vary greatly based on several factors. I also suggested if they are looking to recoup some costs they might look at a per person service charge to each unit. Without information on how the complext is set up and cost of meters no one on here can say if installing them is a good idea or not.

KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239

Posted:

I would budget $1,000 per meter installed as a conservative estimate.