Posted By JohnB26 on 01/21/2012 7:17 AM
http://www.process-servers.net/Process-Server-Trespass-Issues.asp

re: Florida > http://www.napps.org/pdf/newsreleases/Law_Allows_Process_Servers_Access.pdf

Posted By BradP on 01/23/2012 7:21 AM
Joanne:

I don't think it is the Board's position to as Larry put it "contact every law enforcement agency until he is removed". I think the board needs to contact its local jurisdiction, report the threats and that is your burden in my opinion.

Posted By BruceF1 on 01/23/2012 7:30 AM
This person obviously is being very immature and believes that he can avoid a judgement against him if he isn't served. It doesn't work that way.

I'm not familiar with Arizona law, but some jurisdictions allow "drop" serving if a person refuses to answer the door. The process server can just leave the summons on his doorstep and it is considered served. There is also service by publication, which requires only that a notice be published in a local newspaper. If there have been numerous unsuccessful attempts to serve the person, the court (judge) can also enter a default judgement against the person, which can be enforced.

What this person doesn't understand is that the purpose of a process server is to protect his constitutional rights by informing him that legal action has been filed against him, thus affording him the opportunity to defend himself in court. He thinks by his refusal to be served he can avoid the legal action. He cannot. He is simply refusing to defend himself.

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/23/2012 8:46 AM



Brad,

I think you misunderstood my advice.

First, I do not see this as something that only the board should address. Every resident should be concerned about a paranoid whacko with a gun threatening to shoot anyone who knocks on his door. What if it is your daughter selling Girl Scout cookies? This is a community problem, not just an HOA problem. The problem with bullets is that they do not always go where they were intended to go and do not stop where they were intended to stop.

Second, my advice to call multiple agencies is based on my experience that law enforcement agencies are generally pretty slow to respond until they have a couple of dead bodies in the street. When you call the police for help in preventing bloodshed you are not likely to get much help. If the city police actually do respond on the first call, then there is no need to call anyone else. But that seldom happens and that's why I suggest persistence.

BTW, what if the paranoid guy with a gun really has received death threats? Who would make a credible death threat? The Mob, especially the Russian Mafia, comes to mind as do the drug cartels. Both are active in Arizona. It seems to me a call to the FBI and DEA might be a good alternative to ethnic gangs invading a gated community shooting at anything that moves.

Posted By BradP on 01/23/2012 9:40 AM

Larry...thanks but i understood it clearly the first time...when you talk about negligence which is what you were referring to earlier you always apply a standard of what would a prudent person do. In this situation in my opinion a prudent person would either ignore the dude or they would contact their local police department and fill out a report. Do board members carry a higher standard with them, maybe, but not to the extent that they need to contact every agency around. This is a police matter, once you have filled out a report it is in their hands. Now, if you want to take the extraordinary step of contacting the sheriff, FBI, DEA, CIA or whomever that is your decision, however, I don't think that step is a necessary one to mitigate the association's liability.

As for my daughter selling girl scout cookies, I don't send my kids door to door to stranger's homes. I think it is rude. My kids only sell to people we have a pre existing relationship with.

Posted By LarryB13 on 01/24/2012 11:42 PM



Brad,

This is in part a board problem because the person at the center is a board member, the HOA president seems to be on this guy’s side, and the problem homeowner has apparently made a number of irrational threats and demands at board meetings. Being a gated community, the homeowners have ceded much of their authority to the HOA. Under common law, the entity that takes control or has control is responsible for the outcome. I would be the first to admit that the HOA would not solely liable, but it is the only party that has big fat insurance policy.

But the board alone is not liable. Anyone who knows that this person is irrational, armed, and threatening to kill people who come to his door has a responsibility to take some sort of action. The difference between simple negligence and gross negligence is that the latter involves knowing of a danger and disregarding it.

Would a prudent person ignore the presence of a paranoid person living in their community who has publicly threatened to kill others and claims to be armed to the teeth? You imply that hiding your head in the sand and leaving is what a prudent person would do.

In east Phoenix a number of years ago there was a delusional man who lived in an apartment complex. He repeatedly complained to the apartment manager that the girl who lived upstairs on the other side of his building was interfering with his TV reception and that he would kill her if she kept it up. The manager ignored the complaints and the delusional man killed the other resident. Her estate sued and the court found the apartment owners liable because they ignored the death threats.

There are three basic elements to the problem described in this thread: irrational person, firearms, and his physical presence. If one of those elements can be altered, the danger is removed.

Filing a police report is a good first step. The chances of the police hauling this guy off for a mental health evaluation on the first call are not good. In Pima County (Tucson), for example, only twenty five percent of complaints are even investigated. Are you aware that the police have no duty to respond to calls for help?

While a police report in a filing cabinet may make you feel warm and fuzzy, it does not remove the danger. Nothing has changed until you somehow remove the person or the firearms from the community.

I do not see this as something that can wait until the next board meeting or waiting to see if some police agency is going to investigate. Hence my advice to call multiple agencies until you find one that will respond. I would not rule out seeking a court order to have the person committed for a mental health evaluation. (This is what the police should do, but the residents may have to seek this on their own.) I would do whatever it takes to eliminate the danger that this resident poses.

While I am glad that your daughter does not knock on strangers’ doors, there are many people who have a legitimate need to do so. Delivery persons and meter readers come to mind, as well as police, firemen, and process servers.