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HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Hi,

It seems that I've exhausted all means to deal with HOA and was wondering where can I find an attorney specialising in California HOA laws to deal with my HOA. I will prefer attorney to be local to Los Angeles (preferably valley) if possible. I understand that suing HOA is same as suing myself and other owners, but I see no other way of getting my concerns resolved. They've been ignoring all my requests and violating many CC&R sections and by-laws.

Thanks
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Hayk, I know a few attorneys in the Valley that can probably help you. Before you proceed really think if you exhausted all other possibilities. I am saying this because it will be expensive for you to fight this battle. The HOA will be using its funds to defend itself (partially your money) but you'll be paying your own all the way.

Have you considered using a 3rd party mediator to help you with it?
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Jeff,

Thank you for your reply.

I think I did. HOA is not releasing records to me (asked them in writing several times), I've been told that they are actually not even keeping records. They don't hold meetings. I've been having fluding issues for over a year now and last time I spoke with president on the phone he specifically told me that they are not going to do anything at all for me. So I am not sure what else can I do.

In regards to attorney, I will prefer to find someone who will get paid if they win the case. I just have a very negative experience with attorneys that ask for huge fees upfront - usually they then won't fight for you, because they already got paid, but maybe it is different in HOA world.

In regards to 3rd party mediator, I am not sure how that works? And how is it different from me talking to HOA?

Thank you for your assistance.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Hayk, I can pretty much guarantee that you will not find an attorney that will take such a case on contingency. Those cases are only good when you are dealing with insurance companies or really big corporation that have very deep pockets. Here, not only your attorney needs to be sure that you'll win but also that there is money to collect. You might have an attorney write few letters which will cost you few hundred dollars, but if you decided to go all the way to court you are looking somewhere at a range of $30K to over $100 depending on complexity.

Why not try to deal with the situation through different means - by running for a board seat or organizing others to support you and recall a board.

Feel free to shoot me a private email and maybe I can give you few suggestions.

Jeff
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Jeff,

How do I sent a private email here? There is no Email listed and no option to send one.

We had to have an annual meeting back in October, but board didn't organise it, so it never happened. We will try to recall the board, but from what I understand it will take another 2 month to get new elections.

I would love to get in touch with you and hopefully you can help or direct me, so we can finally get this thing moving in a right direction..

Thanks!

JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
you can send me an email jross [at] hoacorner [dot] com
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Hayk, two month to get new elections is a small price to pay. How long do you think it will take you if you go through a court route. If you go all the way you'll be lucky if you get anywhere within a year. Just saying .....

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Hayk...devils advocate a bit here...other than not holding meetings and following rules has there been anything that you have suffered permantly for? Reason I ask is when you win the HOA will have no choice but to enforce a special assessment to cover legal fees and damages unless they have good D&O insurance. But if they are not following rules D&O won't cover them. After the lawsuit is over, then what? The same board will still be in place. Unless you have some significant personal damages a better route might be to organize a recall and get community support and a new board.
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Brad,

Thank you for your response. Well, I've been having flooding in my basement and under my living room every time there is rain and my porch is not being fixed for over a year now. But nothing is permanent everything can be fixed. But I agree with you and others here, so we already started petition process. I got 5% signed and mailed petition yesterday and will serve one to board member today. Then it is a lot of reading to make sure we hold evertyhing properly and get new board elected. They didn't keep books, so we will have to do a lot of work to get everything in order and hopefully there will be some ways to hold them accountable.

Thanks!
BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145
Posted:
Does your HOA have ins. ? We are in MO. our ins. covers a lawsuit if the board is following the c.c.r's.
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Hi,

Unfortunetely I wouldn't know, because board is secretive and not telling anyone anything. I know we have fire and earthquake insurance. And even if we had that insurance it wouldn't cover it, because board has violated at least 4 sections of CC&R and 3 articles of by-laws that I am aware of.

Thanks
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I need more details on your situation. What is causing the flooding? Is the HOA responsible for your home's maintenance issues? What is the HOA supposed to cover as far as structure? Are you paying your dues? Do you know any budget details of the HOA?

I had to deal with some severe flooding issue in my HOA. Everytime it rained I cringed and almost had a nervous breakdown because of this issue. It's a very tricky one and unfornately for BOTH parties there are limitations on what can be done. The HOA may NOT be responsible for your situation. There's also the issue of flood insurance being not offered in certain areas unless deemed to be in a flood zone. Which was the case for us as we are NOT in a flood zone. However, after 1 severe flooding the two houses effected the most did qualify but NOT through the HOA. So the HOA was not obligated to have flood insurance or cover flood damages unless it happened to our clubhouse.

There has to be more details on the situation before I can advise you to seek an attorney. It may truly be a waste of your time and money to do so. That doesn't mean there aren't any other options. I found some with our situation on our flooding issues. Each situation is unique.

There is some good news if you do choose to go with a lawyer. If this involved "Investment property" the legal fees may be tax deductible. I found that out when I had to hire an attorney when my HOA went off the rails once...So I can see a need for an attorney but would like to find solutions without if possible....

Former HOA President
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Hi Melissa,

It is hard for me to tell what exactly causes the flooding, but it seems that drainage that goes under and arround the porch is not working well or maybe the water isolation wasn't done properly, so water is pouring into basement that is under. Then there is another issue with porch being cracked in the middle and having decline towards living room sliding door and not outwards, which in case of heavy rain causes water to collect under that sliding door and at some level start pouring under living room's floor. In regards what HOA should cover it is hard to say. CC&R is not clearly defining porch itself, but I don't think that has anything to do with drainage under it or whaterprofing? More, 6-7 years ago there was a special assestment made to fix porches (all units not only mine) and do waterproofing, but it seems that many units weren't done right and in my case basement sinked and might still be sinking - I guess there is no enough support under it, or maybe land was washed away who knows. So it is my understanding that because this assestment was done and HOA went ahead to fix it it becomes HOA's resposibility, is that so?

Interesting idea about flood insurance, but can I get one after the fact? If you are aware of any other option I will really appreciate your advise.

Regardless of anything with few other homeowners we decided to petion the board and get new elections, because they made too many violations and have been running HOA like dictatorship. But we still will need to find a solution to these problems, because it causes our home values to drop.

Thanks!
DeniseK2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I've been living an HOA nightmare where the president says, "F___ the CC&Rs". It's a runaway HOA! I have been harassed by them, and they are destroying my property. They have libeled me and have defamed me. They continually violate CC&Rs, by-laws and Davis-Stirling Act. The treasurer is so incompetent that she didn't want to do dues increases and instead wants to just do assessments every year if she runs out of money. I have lived there for over 27 years and can't believe there's no help for a homeowner. I wish there was a way to get a group together to insist that there be some kind of agency to protect innocent homeowners. Does anyone have any suggestions? If so, please email me at [email protected]
DeniseK2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I've been living an HOA nightmare where the president says, "F___ the CC&Rs". It's a runaway HOA! I have been harassed by them, and they are destroying my property. They have libeled me and have defamed me. They continually violate CC&Rs, by-laws and Davis-Stirling Act. The treasurer is so incompetent that she didn't want to do dues increases and instead wants to just do assessments every year if she runs out of money. I have lived there for over 27 years and can't believe there's no help for a homeowner. I wish there was a way to get a group together to insist that there be some kind of agency to protect innocent homeowners. Does anyone have any suggestions? If so, please email me at [email protected]
DeniseK2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I've been living an HOA nightmare where the president says, "F___ the CC&Rs". It's a runaway HOA! I have been harassed by them, and they are destroying my property. They have libeled me and have defamed me. They continually violate CC&Rs, by-laws and Davis-Stirling Act. The treasurer is so incompetent that she didn't want to do dues increases and instead wants to just do assessments every year if she runs out of money. I have lived there for over 27 years and can't believe there's no help for a homeowner. I wish there was a way to get a group together to insist that there be some kind of agency to protect innocent homeowners. Does anyone have any suggestions? If so, please email me at [email protected]
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Denise,

Although I think it would be better if you started a new thread, I can almost feel the frustration in your posting.

In your situation, government involvement likely isn't the answer. Community involvement is likely the better and quickest answer.

What I mean by community involvement is gathering support and recalling or simply not reelecting the individuals to serve on the Board. Instead, replace those individuals with yourself and others who are willing to follow the CC&Rs, bylaws and State Statutes.

If you do want a government agency, that agency would be the court system. This is because your governing documents are considered a contract and the State laws are considered civil laws. Violations of the terms of a contract and civil laws are typically worked out between the parties involved. When the parties can't agree to a solution, then one party or the other brings the issue before the courts for a ruling.

As I said, community involvement is likely the better and quickest answer.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
From what the OP has described I fail to see the grounds for a lawsuit.

What is the HOA responsible for on this property according to the documents. What is the source or cause of this water?
What would be the cost to resolve this issue if possible?

And finding a lawyer to take such a case on with no money paid up front well good luck with that search.

Can you find the necessary support to recall the board?
Are you willing to do whatever needs to be done?
Are you able to find people willing and CAPABLE of taking over?
Are you willing to see this go through the entire process?

Before you head down that road best you understand what lies ahead of you.

Wishful thinking and what you THINK is not a plan with much hope for success.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Jon,

Are you referring to Denise as the OP, who reactivated a 2+ year old thread, or Hayk?

Tim
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/27/2014 3:12 AM
Denise,

Although I think it would be better if you started a new thread, I can almost feel the frustration in your posting.

In your situation, government involvement likely isn't the answer. Community involvement is likely the better and quickest answer.

What I mean by community involvement is gathering support and recalling or simply not reelecting the individuals to serve on the Board. Instead, replace those individuals with yourself and others who are willing to follow the CC&Rs, bylaws and State Statutes.

If you do want a government agency, that agency would be the court system. This is because your governing documents are considered a contract and the State laws are considered civil laws. Violations of the terms of a contract and civil laws are typically worked out between the parties involved. When the parties can't agree to a solution, then one party or the other brings the issue before the courts for a ruling.

As I said, community involvement is likely the better and quickest answer.

Sound advice Tim

Welcome to the world of Davis Stirling where there are rules and guidelines for everything just no enforcement arm.

And looking or wishing for outside help is unlikely the answer. Unless you believe that politicians, government and the courts are the answer.

IMO any real change is possible only within the community. But we all know the problems with that. Owner apathy, owner disinterest,
owner willingness to sit by and allow things to occur.

If you can't find the necessary support within your community for change this is likely a battle you can't win.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 08/27/2014 7:20 AM
Jon,

Are you referring to Denise as the OP, who reactivated a 2+ year old thread, or Hayk?

Tim

For both but Hayk's problems are by now hopefully resolved.

For Denise who lives in one of the most regulated states hoping someone else will provide the answer or do the necessary work is wishful thinking.

In almost every case when you have an ineffective or poorly operating HOA the owners are allowing it.
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,001
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BB5 on 01/19/2012 4:53 PM
Does your HOA have ins. ? We are in MO. our ins. covers a lawsuit if the board is following the c.c.r's.

if not, the directors could be personally liable as it would be either nonfeasance (if they were unaware) or malfeasance (if they were aware)

D&O ins. only covers misfeasance (errors and omissions)
HaykP (California)
Posts: 50
Posted:
Hi,

Actually they are not resolved. I got 5 cases against HOA and won them all. So yeh, I collected fines via sheriff, but nothing actually changed and community does not really care. Just to summarize, there were no elections of any type for 3+ years, no statements, no taxes filed, nothing at all. Only one person on board, president, that does anything they want. I did speak to several attorneys just to get upset how unregulated this area is. So I don't know what else to do other than suing time to time for fines.

Hayk
BanksS
Posts: 403
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HaykP on 08/27/2014 11:56 AM
Hi,

Actually they are not resolved. I got 5 cases against HOA and won them all. So yeh, I collected fines via sheriff, but nothing actually changed and community does not really care. Just to summarize, there were no elections of any type for 3+ years, no statements, no taxes filed, nothing at all. Only one person on board, president, that does anything they want. I did speak to several attorneys just to get upset how unregulated this area is. So I don't know what else to do other than suing time to time for fines.

Hayk

HaykP,

What do you mean when you say you collected fines? You say you sue from time to time for fines. Please explain. I am terribly confused by your post.
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
"If you can't find the necessary support within your community for change this is likely a battle you can't win."

So sadly the same situation continues and from time to time you sue for fines as a result of violations. And the other property owners can't be bothered.

Doesn't sound like this is an ideal ending.

And if he HOA is paying those fines, and using an attorney in court when you sue YOU are paying those costs too.

You can blame the MC, you can blame the out of control board but in the end the responsibility for having a badly run HOA lies with the property owners who sit back and allow it. If that does not change more than likely D/S, the courts or any other governement agency will accomplish nothing satisfactory.

DeniseK2 (California)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The problem is that it is a small complex. There's only 4 units! Now they are in to defaming me-they make up stories, etc,. and then put my name and unit # in writing in minutes or postings in public places....they're "engaging in "bullying" me and trying to make me look bad-they accuse me of what they are actually doing! Of lately, they had me go and get roof estimates-they tell their attorney that I "refused" to give them the estimates....which is an outright lie! The other day she said that she was going to try to schedule an HOA meeting and I would bring estimates there to explain them..... They've accused me of being negligent because I won't fix an HOA responsible issue mysel! You mentioned that you knew of some good attorneys--can you please share? I need someone to deal with this- I'm drained rom all teh harassment! The board can't change much....they falsifed teh results of an election and said that I was no longer on teh board (even though I won!). I need someone to look at all my evidence of this harassment and deal with them aggressively! They have ruined my unit, and now they are ruining the outside of the building!

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