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JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
My HOA has a BUDGET Meeting ONCE a year and we are required to vote to either accept or reject the proposed budget. FOR FOLKS IN THE STATE OF AZ, IS EMAIL NOTIFICATION OF A MEETING CONSIDERED THE PROPER WAY TO NOTIFY OWNERS? Thanks and it is ALWAYS SOMETHING with this current board. They sent out the email notice only 4 days prior to the meeting but say it is ok because the property manager could not get the financials together! Also there was no required quorum present as there was not roll call taken and no owner sign in so I would guess the vote taken is null and void. Thanks.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Joanne:

If this is a meeting of the members, then notice must be either mailed or hand-delivered no less than 10 days in advance nor more than 50 days. ARS 33-1804(B). The notice is required to state the purpose of the meeting.

There seems to be a general consensus that owners may waive their rights to mailed or hand-delivered notices and agree to email delivery of notices, although I am unaware of any statutes or case law to support that. In general, the State of Arizona has been resistant to notices of anything by telephone, email, or faxes.

Unless all owners have specifically agreed to accept email delivery of notices, I see no way that the HOA can refuse to mail and/or hand-deliver notices of member meetings. Even if all owners agreed to emailed notices, they are entitled to more than 4 days notice, per the statute cited above.

Larry
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Larry, Thanks so much for this response. We are going to have quite a fight on our hands over this and the board president has gotten wind that this is going to be challenged and is REFUSING to even talk about the subject at the meeting tomorrow. He is a dictator type. I wish there were something in print because I know that you can do Unanimous Consent things with email but I did not know about notices and that would beg the next question.....could HOA voting ever be done withe email? I would doubt that at this point in time. If you can think of anything written in the statutes about this (I have failed to find something) please let me know because seeing the written word is the BEST proof. Have a great week and Thanks Again.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
The notice requirement is in print: Arizona Laws - 33-1804

I'd say go slow. Point out the legal requirement for a 10 day notice (don't worry about the e-mail issue yet). Once the length of notice is resolved, work on how to correct the method of notice. Perhaps you can take on the task of (or assist with)getting the notices delivered.

If you try to correct everything you see that is wrong when you see it, you will drive yourself nuts. Pick your battles and in time things will get to how they are supposed to be ran.

Tim
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
FOLLOWING up on this......we found out that not ALL owners received the email for the meeting notice was was given ONLY 4 days prior so the board is going to SEND ballot out to vote on an assessment HOWEVER it is telling everyone that the budget vote was legal! I say if a meeting is not noticed properly....then all action is void. Thanks for all the comments on this. This Board President also maintains that he can do all board business and notifications by email WITHOUT even asking the stakeholders if that is their preference. I have sent notification that I want everything in paper format. We had a large insurance claim ($200,000) and the whole matter was done by email and some owners were not aware that they had checks cut and waiting for them. The only thing we got hard copy was a release form that had to be notarized).
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
I take that back, they even sent the release form email.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Joanne,

If you must use a short notice, you should have everyone who should have received the notice sign a waiver of notice.
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Tim, Thanks for the comment and you have replied to me in the past and I always appreciate your thoughtful input. Can you speak to the issue of this emailing all data. Rules changes and other items that can seriously impact owners is being done by email. Many owners have items that cannot get through their filters(spam) and we are a community with many elderly who are not tech smart and other have spouses who take computers on business trips. This was brought up at the last meeting and promptly shot down because the president of the board says AZ law permits it. Thanks
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Kelly,

I forget if your in a condominium or not. It doesn't matter as the language in both is the same but I'll only add emphasis to one of them:

For COAs:

Per AZ 33-1248:

"Not fewer than ten nor more than fifty days in advance of any meeting of the unit owners, the secretary shall cause notice to be hand delivered or sent prepaid by United States mail to the mailing address of each unit or to any other mailing address designated in writing by the unit owner."

"for meetings of the board of directors that are held after the termination of declarant control of the association, notice to unit owners of meetings of the board of directors shall be given at least forty-eight hours in advance of the meeting by newsletter, conspicuous posting or any other reasonable means as determined by the board of directors. "

For HOAs:

Per AZ 33-1804

"Not fewer than ten nor more than fifty days in advance of any meeting of the members the secretary shall cause notice to be hand-delivered or sent prepaid by United States mail to the mailing address for each lot, parcel or unit owner or to any other mailing address designated in writing by a member."

"notice to members of meetings of the board of directors shall be given at least forty-eight hours in advance of the meeting by newsletter, conspicuous posting or any other reasonable means as determined by the board of directors."

To summarize AZ law as I read it:

For general membership meetings - minimum of 10 day notice is required and the notice must be mailed or hand delivered unless the member requested, in writing, to receive notices by e-mail. Even if the Board has everyone's e-mail address, if the member did not requested to be notified by e-mail then a printed notice must be used for that member.

For Board meetings - minimum of 48 hr notice is required and the method of delivery is at the desecration of the Board (the whole board not one individual on the board). If the board has everyone's e-mail address then using e-mail would be allowed.

Hope this helps,

Tim
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
TIM.....YOU ARE SO HELPFUL! You hit the nail on the head and there in is what the property manager is not conveying.......the difference between and general membership meeting (action authorizing on top of it) and a regular board meeting. There were 4 out of town owners who did not get the notice of the Budget Meeting as well as the agenda which has an item of "2012 Capital Improvement" (special assessment in finer print if one bothered to read it). Thanks....we keep fighting the fight and now because the president is friendly with a sitting BOD who is in legal trouble......the president has convinced the other board members to get a second legal opinion about process servers because this BOD obviously wants to be notified when he is about to be served and according to our legal opinion, that can be viewed as obstruction with an officer of the court if we were to notify him by telephone. Even though it is our practice as a gated community......the argument according to our atty states we could be at risk in doing that. The story gets even worse with the BOD threatening to shoot an un-annouced vistior and holding the HOA liable!!!! The BOD claims to have had death threats against him. I say that this director is the liability to the HOA!!!!!
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
If you can, start with the property manager. Tell them you are getting confused and ask that both of you review the statutes together so you can reference it when discussing the issue with other members and have this notice issue resolved. Then when you review it point out, acting surprised, the difference between notice for board and general membership meetings. This will allow the property manager to save face a little bit and, as has been pointed out to me many many times, you gather more flies with honey then with vinegar.

JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
UNFORTUNATELY, the property manager sits silent throughout the entire meeting and one has to literally force him to give solid answers. This was posed to him during the meeting and his answer was incorrect and no one challenged it and as you perceived, I am considered the antagonist of the HOA and they have threatened me with a harassment fine....which is laughable. The board was already on the defensive as they passed an item which upset so many owners that now they were faced with this problem in front of many in attendance. Initially the president sent an email that REFUSED to even visit the issue during the meeting. Someone else has taken the ball on this and I am just trying to FACTUALLY support their effort to right a wrong.
OnO (Texas)
Posts: 5
Posted:
Our HOA has done this notification thru email as well. They have gone so far to say they have sent out a few notices when they merely sent the same email out 3 times in one day .
They also have many getting newsletters and so forth thru emails the newsletters are fine but to trap homeowners in getting to the newsletter on line they have put messages that wont let you get to the news letter until you agree with their message. If you don't agree you don't get your newsletter and their messages may concern some under handed thing the BOD has done and we are trapped to say ok
JoanneD1 (Arizona)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Read your governing documents about how they are to notice meetings. My BOD is furious with me because they did not properly notice the annual meeting and they did NOT establish the REQUIRED quorum before voting on a special assessment. I called them on it and after resistance, the president finally admitted the error and now they are having to take the entire vote over again and they claim I am harassing them because they do not follow the documents or the state statutes and I speak out about it. Knowledge is power but they have the bully pulpit!

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