💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
An owner was fined for a violation and refuses to pay the fine. The owner is threatening to put her COA fee in escrow until the fine is removed from her account. Has had ample opportunity to meet with the board to discuss the issue or to put it in writing for the boards consideration but won't do that. Does anyone know if that can be legally done ? Has anyone delt with that type of situation before ?
JonD1
Posts: 2,350
Posted:
IMO a very bad and riskly move by the unit owner.

Failure to make payments of your CCs can be use to force a foreclosure on the property for payment.

Depends on how hard and subborn the unit owner and Board wishes to be.

Can they without payments? YES

Can that backfire on them? Very badly.

Some people have ended up losing their homes for a few dollars and a load of stupidity.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Not so fast.

While there is some truth to what Jon has posted, life isn't always so simple.

First, before you can foreclose, you need to file a lien on the property. The lien doesn't get you any money until the property is sold. You can force a sale by foreclosing, but once you have done that, be prepared to stand in line. Liens are settled out of the sale proceeds in order of priority. Priority is usually assigned in order according to when the liens were filed, which usually means the the holder of a first mortgage has first priority (except for tax liens). Generally, if you decide to foreclose, you will need to foreclose not just for the amount owed you, but for an amount that also includes all liens with a higher priority than yours so that they will be paid. The exception might be if state law grants HOAs (and COAs) a higher priority (sometimes called a super lien).

Then, there's the issue of the fines. Do the governing documents permit fines? If so, were the fines levied in accordance with the governing documents and state law?

The COA might prevail in the end, but it could be a messy (and costly) process to get there.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Yes all fines were levied according to our bylaws and state law. The owner has just decided that she will not pay the fine, seems to have no idea what her responsibilities are, is verbally abusing our property manager and is avoiding direct communication with the board. Her tenant is actually the one who incurred the fine and both the owner and tenant were given plenty of time to correct the issue before even receiving a fine.

Unfortunately, if you let this go then soon every owner who gets a fine or doesn't want to follow the rules and bylaws will pull the same thing. We are a small community and word gets around quickly.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,046
Posted:
In my opinion, If the Assessment isn't received you follow the steps outlined for non-payment in the Associations governing documents. When (and if) you go to court over the lien and/or foreclosure - the other person may or may not win just as the Association may or may not win. As was pointed out, it will cost money to go through this process which will initially have to be paid by the Association.

If the Board received written notification that the assessments would be placed in escrow, then the board should respond referencing the governing documents, State law and the procedures for non-payment. Then wait and see what happens. If there is no written notification about the assessments, the board should not respond about it.

Tim
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Another thing to consider is that it takes time to go through the legal process to place a lien on property and to foreclose. Not only can that initially cost the association money, but meanwhile the fees remain uncollected placing a cash flow burden on the HOA/COA.

But, there is another possibility that can be explored which may cost very little, if anything, and it may be faster.

Depending on your state laws, the mortgage contract may offer some relief. Mortgage contracts in Connecticut include a statement that if the unit owner falls in arrears on the HOA/COA fees, the lender has a right to collect those fees from the owner and pay them to the HOA/COA in the same manner as the lender pays property taxes and sometimes homeowners insurance. If the borrower fails to pay the fees to the bank, the borrower then can be declared in default of the loan. If the unit owner fails to pay the required fee to the association, you can try contacting the lender to see if there is such a clause in the mortgage contract and then inform the lender that the unit owner is in arrears on the required fees.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Bruce,
excellent suggestion.I can check to see if that is an Ohio state law but am not sure how you would know who the mortgage lender is for a particular owner.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Remind her, the fine has nothing to do with her dues. Two separate issues.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Steve,
Thanks. That has normally been the case. However, ohio law now allows associations to take fines from the COA fee. If an owner doesn't pay the fine then it is paid "off the top" of the coa fee for the following month. That leaves the owner short on their COA fee, which in turn generates a late fee for not paying their COA in full. The owner then owes the fine plus a late fee.

Previously, the fine could just sit there for months while the association tried to get an owner to pay. Believe me it doesn't usually take long for them to pay up... except in the case of this lady who just now paid the inital fine but is objecting to the late fees for her COA fees not being paid in full and on time and is threatening to put her COA fees in escrow until the late fees are removed.

BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredB4 on 12/23/2011 5:28 AM
Bruce,
excellent suggestion.I can check to see if that is an Ohio state law but am not sure how you would know who the mortgage lender is for a particular owner.

You might check the municipal or county records office where the deeds are filed. These are public records. The deed on file should show all liens on the property, the lender's lien being one of them.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,046
Posted:
Fred,

Sometimes the Association has to ask themselves what the goal is. If the goal was to have the fine paid and the violation corrected, per your posting it appears that this has been done. If the only late fees were due to the Association crediting the COA payment to the fine prior to the assessment, I'd suggest working out some sort of deal.

If this is the first time it has happened with this individual, perhaps waiving all the fees with a stern warning that the Board won't waive them again.

Tim
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Tim,
That makes a lot of sense and most likely will be what happens. Difficult to tell what $$$ amount would be a reasonable lesson. The amount of time that the board and MC has spent on collecting a $25 fine was unbelievable with letters, emails and two specially arranged board meeeting canceled at the last minute etc. and it still is not resolved.
The problem is that we really try and work with our owners and try to resolve issues. The objective is always to try and get the owner to comply without having to act like the gestapo. It usually works but this is the first time that I have understood how something as simple as a $25 fine could escalate into an owner getting a lien placed on their property.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
simple as a $25 fine could escalate into an owner getting a lien placed on their property.


So be it. Its her choice.

That said...... Your fine better be legal and done properly, it sounds like this one may go to court someday. If you made any mistakes along the way, you may want to waive the fine and the late fees vs going to court and loosing.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Steve,
You are right about that.
I think one of the issues though is that in spite of the board,the accountant and the property manager all making a great effort to explain exactly what is happening and why, it is uncertain if she actually doesn't understand it or is just pretending that she doesn't understand in hopes she will be such a bother that we will just drop it.
MichaelC16 (Ohio)
Posts: 1
Posted:
Are you sure that the accountant and property manager have done a good job explaining this charge to the HOA member? Also, if the late fee's resulted in a $25 fine being taken "off the top" of her monthly HOA fees causing a $25 shortpay and late fee windfall - how quickly was the owner notified that her HOA payment did not suffice as full payment? If Ohio law permits this "off the top" bookkeeping practice, it seems unfair to continue to assess late fee's to an owner consistently paying and not aware that payments are not being directed in the manner that one would assume (payment in full). FWIW, it seems that incessant late charges to a dependable paying owner in your community would be counterproductive - especially if the fee's are being upheld "to prove a point", like you mentioned in your prior post and they may potentially cost your HOA silly legal fees in court.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
Michael,
All excellent points. Thanks for the input.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here