GladysR (Florida)
Posts: 1
Posts: 1
Posted:
Does homeowners have the right to request a list of all owners? Does the board is required to provide it?
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PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
As a member you have the right to view association documents.
However, if you go to your county's 'property appraiser's' website and search your community's/development's name you can find a list of every home, owner, tax assessment, etc. in your community.
However, if you go to your county's 'property appraiser's' website and search your community's/development's name you can find a list of every home, owner, tax assessment, etc. in your community.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posts: 375
Posted:
Try googling for your __________ county auditor and look under "property search" or something similar.It should be quite easy to find.
I disagree with Peter (however he might be right)that the HOA or management company needs to supply you with a list of owners. There seems to be a lot of debate about the legal implications of giving out owner names even if it is public record. There is no reason,that I am aware of, why an association is legally required to give out that type of personal information. Some will give out name and address only. We don't give out that information.
I disagree with Peter (however he might be right)that the HOA or management company needs to supply you with a list of owners. There seems to be a lot of debate about the legal implications of giving out owner names even if it is public record. There is no reason,that I am aware of, why an association is legally required to give out that type of personal information. Some will give out name and address only. We don't give out that information.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
A LIST of names of members of a corporation which you belong to is not 'personal' information.
Florida Law requires several items be kept on file for at least 7 years prior. It specifically mentions a current list of members.
It also states all members have the right to review ALL association documents with VERY FEW exceptions. (Pending litigation, personnel performance files, etc.)
There is a specific procedure your HOA MAY make you follow (written request via certified mail for example). Others may be more flexible and let you just show up at the location of their storage at any time.
The point is you can't be denied.
Florida Law requires several items be kept on file for at least 7 years prior. It specifically mentions a current list of members.
It also states all members have the right to review ALL association documents with VERY FEW exceptions. (Pending litigation, personnel performance files, etc.)
There is a specific procedure your HOA MAY make you follow (written request via certified mail for example). Others may be more flexible and let you just show up at the location of their storage at any time.
The point is you can't be denied.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Gladys
Kansas law requires that we release that information to any homeowner that requests...not sure why you would not release it if asked to...
Kansas law requires that we release that information to any homeowner that requests...not sure why you would not release it if asked to...
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posts: 375
Posted:
Peter,
I wouldn't disagree with you especially since you live in Florida and the post is from Florida. I wouldn't even say we were correct. I just know that we don't do it.
I am curious though if you also release phone numbers ( especially unlisted numbers)or email addresses ?
I wouldn't disagree with you especially since you live in Florida and the post is from Florida. I wouldn't even say we were correct. I just know that we don't do it.
I am curious though if you also release phone numbers ( especially unlisted numbers)or email addresses ?
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Fred:
I don't know Ohio laws but would encourage you to check with your state...the actual statute in Kansas says we have to have alphabetical order of homeowners and the address we communicate with them, says nothing about phone. Just cause you don't do it doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it.
I don't know Ohio laws but would encourage you to check with your state...the actual statute in Kansas says we have to have alphabetical order of homeowners and the address we communicate with them, says nothing about phone. Just cause you don't do it doesn't mean you shouldn't be doing it.
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posts: 435
Posted:
Fred B - FL legislation became effective this year which prohibits publishing telephone numbers or email addresses unless the member agrees in writing to this. We used to publish a directory of the community, and now we must have signed consent to include phone numbers or email addresses.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Gladys,
You may request a copy of the membership list. The Association must provide that list.
The Association may charge you for the time and materials to make the copy.
If you do not want to pay for this time and material then they do not have to provide it.
If you are willing to pay the costs and the Association fails to provide you with the copies, you may take them to court and recover damages.
This is covered under FL 720.303. If your in a condominium, the correct section of the law would be FL 718.111.
The specific language in 720 is [emphasis added]:
(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.--The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, and manner of inspections, and may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including, without limitation, the costs of copying. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members, and may charge only its actual costs for reproducing and furnishing these documents to those persons who are entitled to receive them.
You should be aware that some Associations, not most but some, will try to make it very difficult for members to view the records. They do this by having the individual go through the Associations attorney which drives up the cost for requesting such information. Most might just e-mail you the list at no cost (we would).
You may request a copy of the membership list. The Association must provide that list.
The Association may charge you for the time and materials to make the copy.
If you do not want to pay for this time and material then they do not have to provide it.
If you are willing to pay the costs and the Association fails to provide you with the copies, you may take them to court and recover damages.
This is covered under FL 720.303. If your in a condominium, the correct section of the law would be FL 718.111.
The specific language in 720 is [emphasis added]:
(5) INSPECTION AND COPYING OF RECORDS.--The official records shall be maintained within the state and must be open to inspection and available for photocopying by members or their authorized agents at reasonable times and places within 10 business days after receipt of a written request for access. This subsection may be complied with by having a copy of the official records available for inspection or copying in the community.
(b) A member who is denied access to official records is entitled to the actual damages or minimum damages for the association's willful failure to comply with this subsection. The minimum damages are to be $50 per calendar day up to 10 days, the calculation to begin on the 11th business day after receipt of the written request.
(c) The association may adopt reasonable written rules governing the frequency, time, location, notice, and manner of inspections, and may impose fees to cover the costs of providing copies of the official records, including, without limitation, the costs of copying. The association shall maintain an adequate number of copies of the recorded governing documents, to ensure their availability to members and prospective members, and may charge only its actual costs for reproducing and furnishing these documents to those persons who are entitled to receive them.
You should be aware that some Associations, not most but some, will try to make it very difficult for members to view the records. They do this by having the individual go through the Associations attorney which drives up the cost for requesting such information. Most might just e-mail you the list at no cost (we would).
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
Who asked for phone numbers or e-mail addresses?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
FredB4,
Perhaps you are not aware of a recent OHIO law, OHIO PLANNED COMMUNITY LAW which went into effect in 2010 or 2011.
Per this law 5312.07 Examination of books and records:
(A) Unless otherwise prohibited by this section, any owner may examine and copy the books, records, and minutes of the owners association that division (C) of section 5312.06 of the Revised Code describes, pursuant to reasonable standards set forth in the declaration, bylaws, or rules the board promulgates. The standards may include, but are not limited to, standards governing the type of documents that are subject to examination and copying, the times and locations at which those documents may be examined or copied, and the specification of a reasonable fee for copying the documents.
Perhaps you are not aware of a recent OHIO law, OHIO PLANNED COMMUNITY LAW which went into effect in 2010 or 2011.
Per this law 5312.07 Examination of books and records:
(A) Unless otherwise prohibited by this section, any owner may examine and copy the books, records, and minutes of the owners association that division (C) of section 5312.06 of the Revised Code describes, pursuant to reasonable standards set forth in the declaration, bylaws, or rules the board promulgates. The standards may include, but are not limited to, standards governing the type of documents that are subject to examination and copying, the times and locations at which those documents may be examined or copied, and the specification of a reasonable fee for copying the documents.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I don't think a member should have a "list" of all the members. They can have the "lot numbers" of the members. I used to have a copy of a map with the entire HOA on it. Think I got the map from the county property recording. It should be public information. It won't have any people's name on it. It will have the lot numbers or addresses of the properties. This is the information the Tax collector's use for identifying property owners too.
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
Former HOA President
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I don't think a member should have a "list" of all the members. They can have the "lot numbers" of the members. I used to have a copy of a map with the entire HOA on it. Think I got the map from the county property recording. It should be public information. It won't have any people's name on it. It will have the lot numbers or addresses of the properties. This is the information the Tax collector's use for identifying property owners too.
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
Former HOA President
CarolF (Florida)
Posts: 435
Posts: 435
Posted:
Peter - I was replying FL information to this question........
FredB4
(Ohio)
Posts:163
12/21/2011 9:23 PM Quote Reply
Peter,
I wouldn't disagree with you especially since you live in Florida and the post is from Florida. I wouldn't even say we were correct. I just know that we don't do it.
I am curious though if you also release phone numbers ( especially unlisted numbers)or email addresses ?
FredB4
(Ohio)
Posts:163
12/21/2011 9:23 PM Quote Reply
Peter,
I wouldn't disagree with you especially since you live in Florida and the post is from Florida. I wouldn't even say we were correct. I just know that we don't do it.
I am curious though if you also release phone numbers ( especially unlisted numbers)or email addresses ?
JohnB26 (South Carolina)
Posts: 1,569
Posts: 1,569
Posted:
in all 50 states i believe any member of a corporation has a right to a list of all corporate members entitled to vote at (annual) meeting(s)
this would cover 95-99% of all HOAs
DOH
this would cover 95-99% of all HOAs
DOH
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posts: 375
Posted:
Peter,
No one mentioned phone numbers and email addresses. I was just curious if Florida required associations to provide that as well.
Tim,
Thanks for the link. I was aware of the laws but don't think I read all of it.
No one mentioned phone numbers and email addresses. I was just curious if Florida required associations to provide that as well.
Tim,
Thanks for the link. I was aware of the laws but don't think I read all of it.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posts: 927
Posted:
> Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners.
I cannot imagine that this is so. How would you communicate about meetings, assessments, etc.???? This would be one of the most basic responsibilities of management.
I cannot imagine that this is so. How would you communicate about meetings, assessments, etc.???? This would be one of the most basic responsibilities of management.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 12/21/2011 4:41 PM
I don't think a member should have a "list" of all the members. They can have the "lot numbers" of the members. I used to have a copy of a map with the entire HOA on it. Think I got the map from the county property recording. It should be public information. It won't have any people's name on it. It will have the lot numbers or addresses of the properties. This is the information the Tax collector's use for identifying property owners too.
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
I don't think a member should have a "list" of all the members. They can have the "lot numbers" of the members. I used to have a copy of a map with the entire HOA on it. Think I got the map from the county property recording. It should be public information. It won't have any people's name on it. It will have the lot numbers or addresses of the properties. This is the information the Tax collector's use for identifying property owners too.
Honestly, even your own HOA most likely doesn't have a complete list of owners. I know we didn't have a complete list of the actual owners of all our homes. That's due to multiple reasons. Anyone using their property as rental wouldn't have the HOA address as their own. Some property were managed by management companies who may not release their clients names. Other properties just hadn't paid their dues for so long that ownership records were non-existent. I had to spend ALOT of time tracking down official owners of properties. It wasn't easy.
Keep in mind that a HOA doesn't necessarily need the name of the owner to process actions. You hear all the time about foreclosures on owners who claim the HOA never notified them. It's because the HOA legal obligation is to serve notice to the HOA address NOT any outside address. Plus during the proceedings of filing a lien/foreclosure, it is announced in a local publication/newspaper for PUBLIC notification. The foreclosure/lien is against the property and whoever's name is attached to that property is responsible. It doesn't mean that name is always known.
We kept the owner's names to only the board or bookkeeper. Otherwise, if the other owners wanted to make the effort to contact the other members, they were more than free to go knock on their doors or go around writing down the addresses outside the home. It would be on their dime for the stamps and envelopes NOT the HOA's. Don't expect ANYTHING to be handed to you in a HOA...
Melissa
it really doesn't matter what anyone thinks, if you live in a state where it is a requirement to keep and give that information upon request you have to do it. Knowingly violating state law puts yourself and your HOA at risk. I don't know the laws in your state, but in my state we are required to keep and have to give that information upon request.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posts: 708
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredB4 on 12/22/2011 8:03 AM
Peter,
No one mentioned phone numbers and email addresses. I was just curious if Florida required associations to provide that as well.
Peter,
No one mentioned phone numbers and email addresses. I was just curious if Florida required associations to provide that as well.
OK, just trying to keep the topic relevant to the OP's '?'
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