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JeffB10 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Hello all,

I am a condo owner on the second story of a three-story building, and my HOA requires a chimney/flue inspection every two years in the "Rules and Regulations" document posted on their website. The rule about inspections says :

"No resident shall use his or her fireplace unless it has passed an inspection. The inspection must be done once every two years by a professional chimney sweep that uses a video camera. Any necessary repairs must be completed before the ban is lifted. Capped chimneys should have a sign indicating that they are capped, also check with HOA management before using the fireplace. No fires are permitted in capped fireplaces."

Apparently each condo owner is responsible for scheduling and selecting the chimney inspector for their own flue. The HOA suggested a chimney inspector but I've had limited success contacting the vendor, so I shopped around and found someone else. My chimney was inspected in November for the first time in two years, and of course the new inspector suggested ~$3500 in repairs. Some of the proposed repairs are clearly legitimate, like adding a chimney cap to the top of the flue. But the bulk of the expense is for a kind of ceramic spray that they want to coat the inside of the flue with to seal up gaps between the tiles in the liner. The inspection report has pictures of the gaps that need to be filled and deems the chimney unsafe for use until it is repaired. From what I understand the design of our flues is somewhat dated and modern construction typically involves metal or ceramic linings in flues rather than brick and mortar.

Needless to say, I've decided to proceed with the repairs rather than risk a chimney fire. However, when I started investigating my responsibilities as a home owner, I found that the bylaws pretty specifically designate the HOA as the responsible party for anything "exterior to the unit". Likewise, the responsibility of the owner is specifically for repairs "within his own unit". I am not a lawyer, but wouldn't the chimney cap at least be considered outside the unit? Likewise isn't the flue considered a limited common element separate from the unit? The flue connects solely to my fireplace, but it extends well outside of my living space (eg. it passes through the third story of the property and out through the roof).

The actual HOA bylaws (separate document from the rules and regulations) do not mention chimneys or flues at all, but they do mention maintenance. The wording from the HOA bylaws says :

The owner is required for maintenance "within his own unit", "commencing at a point at which the utility lines, pipes, wires, conduits or system enter the unit"

The association is required for maintenance "exterior of the building erected on each lot, including painting, repairing, replacing, and caring for roofs, gutters, downspouts, exterior building surfaces and the exterior of other improvements" but only in circumstances of "ordinary wear and tear".

With the exception of the firebox and perhaps a small section of the flue, wouldn't the rest of the maintenance be considered outside the unit and therefore the responsibility of the HOA? When I sent the report to the HOA they said that it was up to me whether or not to proceed with the repairs. They also said that the flue and the chimney cap are considered an "appliance" and therefore are the responsibility of the owner. They also recommended getting a second opinion, because apparently not all chimney inspectors recommend the repairs that this one does and of course it's not an inexpensive repair. Who ultimately should be making the decision and what are the liabilities if we later have a fire?

See below, the entire section of the bylaws concerning maintenance and repair.

Thanks for any thoughts on this,
Jeff

ARTICLE XIX Maintenance

1. Common Elements.The Association shall maintain and manage the
common elements lying outside the exterior walls of buildings located
on lots, including, but not limited to the landscaping, parking areas,
drives, and recreational facilities, excepting, however, the patios
and balconies.

The Association shall maintain the exterior of the building erected on
each lot, including painting, repairing, replacing, and caring for
roofs, gutters, downspouts, exterior building surfaces and the
exterior of other improvements; provided that such exterior
maintenance shall not include maintenance, repair, or replacement of
glass or screen surfaces, or patios and balconies; and further
provided that such obligations shall apply only to such maintenance
required by ordinary wear and tear and shall not apply to maintenance,
repair, or restoration occasioned by damage or destruction caused by
fire, accident, willfull destruction, or other casualty.

The Association shall maintain and repair all utility service lines
serving more than one unit. The Association may also perform such
other services including (by way of example and not exclusion), snow
removal and restoration and replacement of other areas, for the
benefit of the property or of owners as the Board of Managers may
reasonably deem necessary or advisable.

Nothing herein shall be construed as waiving any right of the
Association to recover for damage or expense incurred by the
Association as a result of the willfull or negligent act of any owner,
his family, guests or invitees, or any other person.

2. Owner's Responsibility. Every owner must perform promptly at his
own expense all maintenance and repair work within his own unit. An
owner shall not do an act or any work that will impair the structural
soundness or integrity of the building or impair any easement or
hereditament. All the repairs of internal installations of the units
such as water, light, gas, power, sewage, telephone, sanitary
installations, doors, windows, walls, electrical fixtures, appliances
and equipment installed within the unit commencing at a point at which
the utility lines, pipes, wires, conduits or system enter the unit,
shall be at the owner's expense.

Each owner shall maintain, repair, and restore all improvements on his
unit, including the patio or balcony appurtenant thereto (to the
extent that such improvements are not required to be maintained,
repaired and restored by the Association pursuant to this Article), so
that the exterior maintenance and appearance of the improvements on
such lot are consistent with the level and quality of the exterior
maintenance and appearance of the improvements on the other lots on
the property. Provided that nothing contained herein shall be
construed as requiring any owner to rebuild any improvement which has
been substantially destroyed and is not occupied. If any owner shall
fail to so maintain, repair, or restore, the Association may do so,
may charge the owner the cost thereof, and shall have a lien on such
owner's lot for such costs, enforceable and subject to the same prior
liens, as provided as to liens for assessments herein.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would say the installation of the flue would have to be approved by the HOA due to it's appearance but the cost would be the owner's responsibility. That's because it effect the internal workings of the chimney. It prevents damage from occurring inside.

However, if there were bricks falling off the side of the chimney, that would be on the HOA's responsibility coat and maintenance wise. It's external and effects the aesthetics of the property NOT the functionality.

It's important to have safe operating fireplaces. We had a home catch on fire from a faulty fire place. Luckily, it was caught early and only effected the interior of that house. Considering our homes are only 10-15 feet between eachother, multiple houses could have went up. Our HOA didn't require any maintenance or responsibility for fireplaces. We did let people who had them know it wasn't a good idea to use them unless they took the proper steps to maintain them.

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Jeff it is more than likely your responsibility, the flue wouldn't be a common element but rather a limited common element, something outside your unit but for your exclusive use. It does not however hurt to ask, simply contact the Board or MC and ask them to point out the relevant section in the CC&R's to you.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
JeffB10 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 12/14/2011 3:13 PM
Jeff it is more than likely your responsibility, the flue wouldn't be a common element but rather a limited common element, something outside your unit but for your exclusive use. It does not however hurt to ask, simply contact the Board or MC and ask them to point out the relevant section in the CC&R's to you.

Let me ask a related question. If something is identified as a limited common element and the CC&R's do not specify who is responsible for maintenance and repair, how do you determine who is responsible? I'm tempted to approach my HOA and propose a change to the bylaws just so that it's clear moving forward who is responsible for flues. To my knowledge there's nothing in the CC&R's that says anything about the flues other than that an inspection is required every two years.
JeffB10 (Colorado)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenL on 12/14/2011 3:13 PM
Jeff it is more than likely your responsibility, the flue wouldn't be a common element but rather a limited common element, something outside your unit but for your exclusive use. It does not however hurt to ask, simply contact the Board or MC and ask them to point out the relevant section in the CC&R's to you.

Let me ask a related question. If something is identified as a limited common element and the CC&R's do not specify who is responsible for maintenance and repair, how do you determine who is responsible? I'm tempted to approach my HOA and propose a change to the bylaws just so that it's clear moving forward who is responsible for flues. To my knowledge there's nothing in the CC&R's that says anything about the flues other than that an inspection is required every two years.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Sounds like a good idea.

The Board may have already done this via resolution (board decision)

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