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RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Hello,

I am a potential buyer who is in escrow and the lender is asking that the HOA required to have Fidelity Bond coverage. To make things worse, my wife and I (buyers) and the seller agree to pay for the 1st year's premiums which is about $668 however the HOA president and the board still refused to get the Fidelity Bond coverage. Since we are getting a loan which is Fannie Mae and/or Freddie Mac guaranteed and this coverage is part of their requirements. This HOA is a self managed HOA so there is no management company involved. The seller is trying to arrange the meeting with all of the howeoners to get a vote on this. Since other homeowners will not be able to sell their place unless it's a cash sale or hard money loan and in today's economy this is very unlikely. This HOA is being very unreasonable especially it won't cost him anything for the first year.

Please let me know what actions we can take againsts HOA. Its seems they are not looking out for the best interest of their homeowners and therfore not performing due diligence.

Thank you very much for your input.
ChrisP5 (Missouri)
Posts: 165
Posted:
You may want to read the CC&Rs as it is possible that they spell out that the association is required to have this as well (our's say that it is required, not sure how common this is). While it won't force the board to purchase the insurance it could help make your case. Educating the other homeowners about what the coverage is could also help your case, especially given the number of news stories out there about HOAs that have funds stolen.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Chris hit it on the head, education seems to be the key component here. I am not very knowledgable about the situation so my first response as an HOA president would be no, why do we need that. Educating people on why it is needed and what it can and will do for the association is really your only recourse here.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You may want to see if you can find another loan source besides Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac. There are other mortgage companies out there. It's becoming more and more difficult for owner's to get approved and loan programs to be offered. It's a situation many are very uneducated about. Owner's don't realize the impact of the health of their HOA has on the loan availability. Too many rentals, owner's behind in dues, or debt ratio too high, limits the number of available loan programs to that area. In your case, it's the lack of the insurance.

I would request attending a HOA meeting and making your case. If you can't attend, then the current owner should address the issue. It does effect ALL the owner's if they are so concerned about their home values. It's home value maintenance at the HOA's core. What more could effect it than the inability to sell no matter how many "golden toilets" they put in their homes?

Former HOA President
RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thank you guys for your input. Much appreciated! The current owner (seller) is trying to organize the emergency HOA meeting where he would ask all of the homeowners for thier opinion and vote on this. The hard part for me to comprehend is since we agree to pay for it why HOA just go with it, it does not cost them anything and then they can revaluate the sitation next year to see if they find value in it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Here is a link to davis-stirling.com Insurance page

Here is a link to davis-stirling.com Fidelity Bond page

It appears that a fidelity bond is recommended but not required by State statutes. Therefore, if the Association doesn't want to carry it and you still want the property, you should look for a different lender.

Personal opinion, if the Association doesn't want to carry it, you might be better off looking for property in a different Association. At least you should fully investigate the Association's financials and see if there are any issues you should be concerned about (like the amount of reserves, the level of other insurance, etc.).

RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
What if the homeowners vote for this coverage can the HOA still refuse do get it? Can then they be liable for not performing due diligence?

Thank you.
EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
RomanG,

If the Board was to consider buying this coverage – I would think that they would want to purchase the Bond through the same Insurance Broker that writes their Master Policy and D&O policy, etc.

Before we could obtain such coverage, or get a Quote, we had to fill out application forms and/or provide specific data. Curious, who provided the required HOA information? Or did the Insurance Agent already have it.

You wrote you are willing to pay for one year (the first year’s coverage) – but does not this Bond Coverage need to remain in place and be renewed?

Have you given the Board a copy of the HUD-FHA guidelines that contains the requirement?

Do you know if all the Board Members voted against it, or was it a split decision?

I wonder if you could enlist the Association’s Insurance Broker to attend a Board Meeting to try to convince the Board that purchasing a Fidelity Bond is a good thing. Or have you already tried that?
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RomanG on 12/01/2011 1:32 PM
Hello,
Please let me know what actions we can take againsts HOA. Its seems they are not looking out for the best interest of their homeowners and therfore not performing due diligence.

Your ability to take any action is very limited since you are not an owner and not a member. The seller might be able to do things, but you might be running out of time.

Are you getting an FHA loan? Is the association FHA approved? There are many associations that purposely don't want to get FHA certification because they don't want people paying only 3% down payment moving in. I am not saying it's a right move, but it's a reality.

RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
We are getting a conventional loan not FHA since the building is not FHA approved. We are waiting for the seller to schedule a meeting with the Board and possibly other homeowners. But our loan is Sallie Mae guaranteed as many conventional loans are nowadays.
RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
The required HOA information was provided by our lender since the HOA submitted the financial and other information to escrow and a copy to our along with the current insurance policy. In the perfect world the coverage preferably need to remain in place. Our lender provided the Fannie Mae guidelines that contain the requirement. This is the only thing preventing us from closing, we are so so close and to loose this place over this would be devastating for us.

Thank you for you input guys!
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Roman, you and your wife need to step back and look at this without the rose colored glasses. Yes you may love it, it may be the perfect location but if the HOA and from your description I'm guessing it's a small condo building is fighting this hard to avoid a Fidelity Bond IMHO there's something fishy going on somewhere. Good news, in this economy there are a lot of motivated sellers out there.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
ZhenyaR (California)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Roman, it's a bummer to be this close and have to walk away. THe good news is that there is another better deal is just around the corner. But you can also try to talk to few other lenders and maybe one can get your loan done without a Bond.
RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
i believe most if not all lenders require this Bond policy, so it would tough to go around it if HOA doesn't comply with us. So we might be looking for a house to avoid dealing with HOA after all.

Thank you all!
ZhenyaR (California)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Roman, you may want to ask around. We just had two units sell in our building with conventional loans and we don't have this bond in place. A friend just bought a condo also where this wasn't a requirement.

RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
May I ask, where are these Condo's located. Apparently, the requirement is 20+ units in a complex need to have it according to Fannie Mae guidelines, my understanding is it that sometimes it's missed during the underwriting process and we were the lucky ones that have to deal with this.

This one is in Encino, CA
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RomanG on 12/01/2011 9:39 PM
We are getting a conventional loan not FHA since the building is not FHA approved.
But our loan is Sallie Mae guaranteed as many conventional loans are nowadays.

Since the housing crisis, many new rules were put into place that has the lender looking at the financial stability of an Association (because they don't want a financially unstable HOA to call for a special assessment or massive increase in fees which might cause the borrower to default or miss payments on the mortgage).

The same housing crisis caused the guidelines for FHA certification of Condominiums to be tightened. Having an FHA certification means that the development meets the new rules (plus other criteria).

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac used all of those rules and developed new criteria for loans as well. As you know, Mortgage loans are sold many times before they are paid off. Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac are the main purchasers of home loans. Therefore, many lenders require the same rules as Freddie and Fannie so the loan can be more easily sold.

Here are some links you may find interesting:

Freddie Mac Condo requirements

10 Questions You Must Ask Before Purchasing A Condominium Unit

Hope this helps,

Tim

EllieD (Vermont)
Posts: 446
Posted:
RomanG,

When the issue of the Bond requirement came up, do you know if the Seller first approached the Board, and explained why needed.

Thinking as a Board Member, I hope they were aware, that someone other than the Board would be getting a Quote. It seems a bit unusual for the Lender to provide information to the Insurance Broker to get a Quote – unless the Board said to do so.

Do you know why the Board does not want to purchase the Bond? The “why” depending – may give you cause to reconsider - as has already been pointed out.

Apparently the Board wears two hats - One as Directors, and the other acting as the Management Company.

Have you made an effort thru the Seller to find out “how smoothly” things are typically handled? Is the Board an “experienced” Board that works well together?

From what you write the Condo Group is rather small. Have you had a chance to casually ask of any other Owners/Residents how they like living there?
ZhenyaR (California)
Posts: 15
Posted:
Roman, my building is in Valley Village but it's a 20 units building so it may make the difference. The building my friend bought at is in Tarzana and it's a 100+ units building, so I would guess the requirement would be the same as yours. Maybe she got lucky and it didn't get noticed.
RomanG (California)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Guys,

A little update, Apperently the lender as well as the underwriter found something the master policy that talks about officers and that they are being covered they are checking with the insurance agent on the amount of coverage and if everything is ok then we won't need the fidelity bond after all and we will be ready to close! Big releive, keeping my fingers crossed! Hope everything will be ok.

Have a great weekend everybody!

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