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NadineR (Florida)
Posts: 2
Posted:
About 10 residents organized an activity group to hold events/parties for our community to enjoy. It started about 4 years ago and the then President of the HOA told them to keep their money separate. So they opened an account, under the activity name it was given, in a local bank. The monies that are made are accounted for when an activity takes place. Now the BOD wants this group to combine their money, which they do not want to do, as they need access to this money to do shopping, give deposits, etc.

The By Law Policy states as follows:

"All Activities are governed by the HOD-BOD and need to be approved by the Liason member responsible for Activities. Each Activity with elect a Committee and Chairperson to guide the programs of that Committee.

All monies collected for/by any [NAME OF COMMUNITY] Activity (such as Bingo, Flea Market, Crafts, etc.) belong to the HOA and are to be deposited in the Activity Account. Chairpersons of each Committee may make recommendations on how to spend monies and while every effort will be made to approve such recommendations, the final decision on how monies will be spent rests with the BOD."

The Rules and Regulations states as follows:

"At the option of the Board, all finances (including debits and credits) must be processed through the Association's treasury."

So, if it's at the option of the Board, could the Board just grant permission to continue to keep this Activity fund separate?

Everything runs extremely smoothly under the way it is being run, the parties/events are always a success, and if any taxes are to be paid, they are given to the Association. Is there anything illegal about this? I suggested that the Chairperson of the Activities Committee (who is an Officer on the Board), have his/her name put on the account, along with a few of the committee members, and have two signatures on checks that are written, one signature always being that of the Activities Chairperson.

Thank you for your help.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I believe in keeping the activities funds separate from the HOA funds. Mainly due to the taxation difference. If the HOA combines the funds, then they could be paying taxes on that money as it isn't quite "non-profit" use. A HOA isn't a non-profit in the sense of what charity groups are. Certain funds could be subject to taxes based on the way they are collected. A HOA is to be funded by dues, late fees, or collection of legal methods.(Liens, foreclosures or small claims). Fines and donation of funds are not considered typical "income" sources and thus exposes these funds to taxes.

Keeping the activities money separate allows that committee to raise funds by bake, rummage, or lemonade sales. People can contribute on their own accord. This would be a method of their income and could be considered "For Profit". As a "For-profit" the tax laws are different. This would benefit both sides for this type of set up.

Besides, if it works, keep it working...

Former HOA President
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
This information is not accurate.

Taxation has to do with how money are spent, not how they are raised. if you have a bake sale and them money benefit all the members it wouldn't be taxable. Another limitation is percentage of these money in comparison with regular assessments. Fines and penalties are never taxable because they are part of your association normal business.
FredB4 (Ohio)
Posts: 375
Posted:
If it ain't broke don't fix it. Keeping it seperate gives more incentive to those participating.
SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
So they opened an account, under the activity name it was given, in a local bank. The monies that are made are accounted for when an activity takes place.


So they opened their own bank account under their own name, write their own checks and deposits. Tell me again why you think board has any control of what this group does. It sounds completely independent to me. Why cant the group just say no?
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffR7 on 12/01/2011 10:14 AM
This information is not accurate.

Taxation has to do with how money are spent, not how they are raised. if you have a bake sale and them money benefit all the members it wouldn't be taxable. Another limitation is percentage of these money in comparison with regular assessments. Fines and penalties are never taxable because they are part of your association normal business.

That information is not quite accurate, either.

In order to file with the preferred tax status of an HOA (Form 1120-H), 60% of the HOA's income (that is, income that is equal to 60% of the HOA's annual budget) must be "exempt function income." Exempt function income is generally regarded as fees that are charged equally to all homeowners, such as dues. Exempt function income is not taxable. Other forms of income (clubhouse rental, interest on deposits, special use fees that are not equally assessed to all homeowners, etc.) cannot exceed 40% of the annual budget. Expenses must meet a 90/10 percent test. This income is taxable after a $100 standard deduction and the expenses associated with collecting that income have been deducted (not expenses related to how that income is used or spent).

You need to be careful with a separate activity that collects money and uses it for such things a activities (parties, etc.) Even though there is no net profit, the IRS does not consider such activities as deductible expenses from the income. Legally, you might be required to file a standard 1040 on that income and pay taxes. (The IRS taxes everything!) I know many people do such things and do not file or pay taxes and manage to get away with it year after year, believing it's OK because there's no profit from their perspective. But, the IRS sees it differently and it is illegal.

Example: you have a bake sale and use the money to benefit all the members, let's say have a holiday party or have a picnic. Sorry, the holiday party or the picnic are not deductible expenses. The cost of the bake sale is. That is, the cost of the baked goods or baking ingredients, advertising, renting a place to hold the sale, etc. can be deducted from the income from the sale.

I recently completed a course to become a professional tax preparer. It's amazing the things I learned that I never knew before.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Thanks for the info Bruce. I didn't think that was right but didn't have the info to say otherwise.

BonnieG1 (Nebraska)
Posts: 1,186
Posted:
very interesting forum as I have been thinking of having a "yard sale" in our community room to raise $ for entertanment expenses.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Bruce, I run a non profit corporation and have been doing for about 10 years now. I am talking an actual charitable non profit. It's not a job, is's giving back, but .....

We are allowed to have fundraising (sell items, rent equipment, etc.) and as long as our total income from those activities (not considered our main activity) does't exceed some percentage (can't recall the exact number now) it doesn't become taxable. If it did exceed that we would have to file a separate tax form and pay taxes on that income. The only thing is that money is not tax deductible to people that spent it, unlike donations which we are able to accept.

Is it different for HOAs?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Thanks Bruce for the information. It's kind of what I was thinking but unable to convey properly. Was trying to put it in more real life layman's terms to convey the intent of the tax laws. Didn't do a very good job. Working third shift right now and kind of living in a cloud.


Former HOA President
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JeffR7 on 12/01/2011 8:25 PM
Bruce, I run a non profit corporation and have been doing for about 10 years now. I am talking an actual charitable non profit. It's not a job, is's giving back, but .....

We are allowed to have fundraising (sell items, rent equipment, etc.) and as long as our total income from those activities (not considered our main activity) does't exceed some percentage (can't recall the exact number now) it doesn't become taxable. If it did exceed that we would have to file a separate tax form and pay taxes on that income. The only thing is that money is not tax deductible to people that spent it, unlike donations which we are able to accept.

Is it different for HOAs?

The difference is which section of Title 26 (The Internal Revenue Code) the organization comes under.

Non-profit organizations fall under Section 501. Charitable organizations generally fall under 501(c)(3). A civic league or organization that is operated exclusively for the promotion of social welfare falls under 501(c)(4). Chambers of Commerce come under 501(c)(6). Non-profit clubs organized for pleasure or recreation come under 501(c)(7). Those are some examples.

In order for Section 501 non-profit organizations to be exempt from taxes, they must file Form 1023 or 1024 to apply for tax-exempt status. The IRS will than send a letter advising whether or not approval for tax-exempt status has been granted. Different organizations have different income and permitted expense requirement. IRS Publication 557 provides more information.

An HOA comes under Section 1.528 and is different in that it is like any other corporation which files Form 1120, EXCEPT that if certain income and expenditure tests are met it may ELECT to be treated with the preferred tax status of an HOA. It must make this election EACH YEAR and does so by simply filing Form 1120-H instead of Form 1120 for that year.

By the way the safer way for a group to raise money for recreational purposes is to form an organization and apply for 501(c)(7) status. I believe as such an organization the expenses of holding parties and such for the benefit of members would be deductible. One would have to read the rules to be sure.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Thank you Bruce. I learned something new - it's a great day.

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