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KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Hi,

I have another question. Does an HOA have the right to fine their home owners without having the home owner appear before a fining committee?

Our HOA is in Broward County, FL.

Our president insists that we can't fine unless we have a fining committee. I know that such committees do exist in some HOA's and Condo Ass., but are the required by law?

Thanks
Karl

Cheers
Karl
WayneM2 (California)
Posts: 12
Posted:
IMO you don"t fine you communicate.
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Karl, the way I read 720.305 I would have to agree with your president.

(b) A fine or suspension may not be imposed without at least 14 days’ notice to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed. If the association imposes a fine or suspension, the association must provide written notice of such fine or suspension by mail or hand delivery to the parcel owner and, if applicable, to any tenant, licensee, or invitee of the parcel owner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Fines are very complicated matter for a HOA. Believe it or not, most HOA's don't have allowances for fines in their documentation. The documents may say they can pursue reasonable means to enforce their rules but fining remains undefined. That is where the issue really lies. It's not a committee thing.

Many states don't allow fines to be the basis of liens/foreclosures. It is non-paid assessments or cost associated with removal of violations. You need to find out if your state is one of those that allows fines to be liened. Liens/foreclosure process is the strongest legal process the HOA has going for it over lawsuits/fines.

A fine is more like a "speeding ticket". It isn't considered income for the HOA. It's a punitive measure only. The type of fine and amount of fine has to be agreed upon by the majority of owners. The BOD enforces the fines if it is in by-laws to do. If there is no fine system setup with the owners awareness, then fines could be tossed out ultimately. It would make it difficult to legally enforce.

Example of what I am talking about. Let's say that trash cans can't be on the side of the road until Trash day Friday. The cans can go out Thursday night. An owner puts his can out consistently on wednesday. How could your HOA enforce them to put it out on Thursday night/friday morning? Are there fines written somewhere that it is $25 a day until XX amount is reached? If not then that is where you need to start to do your research on how and if this can be done. This should lead you in the direction to understanding the complications involved in creating and enforcing fines for your HOA. This research will lead you to find it's not as black and white as just having a fining committee. A committee has to be formed and given the rights to fine at an appropriate rate. It also has to be able to work according to the laws of the state in being able to enforce.

Former HOA President
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
The BOD can issue the fine and as Melissa points out there should be a set fine schedule. The Fining Committee is separate from the BOD to prevent the BOD from being judge, jury and executioner.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
@Wayne: We are way past communicating. There are a few homeowners, they just don't give a crap and do what they want.

@Glen: Thank you very much. I was reading 720 up and down, and I just couldn't find it. That was really great information. Thanks.

@Melissa: Also very grateful for your advice. Never thought about a fining schedule. We have something in place right now that is very basic. It pretty much says that the board will fine for certain violations $50.00 and for others $10.00 / day up to $500.00 if violation is not corrected, but that's about it.
We should definitely think about a fining schedule.

Thank you to all three of you. Great input that I can take to our next meeting.

Happy Thanksgiving !!!!!

Karl

Cheers
Karl
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Karl

a lot depends on your state statutes and your documents. Our state statutes are silent on the issue except to say we can't enforce unreasonable restrictions. Our documents allow us to fine and allow the board to set a schedule. We just have to give 15 days written notice. We have established a fine schedule and we actually give them two notices (30 days) before we fine. The homeonwers have the option of appeals and that is spelled out in our docs as well.
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Thanks Brad,

I have to check the FL statutes. I know our documents are rather vague on this issue.

Cheers
Karl
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
' Does an HOA have the right to fine their home owners without having the home owner appear before a fining committee? '

Karla,

no, not in Florida. Yes, do read the 720. Any questions, pls ask.
BillD10 (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Posts above concerning Fl 720 correct on fining rules,also note there is settled Fl law that HOA can not lien to collect the fines. Not sure collection procedure though as our developer controlled board refuses to put a fining committee in place or to establish fines. Our compliance is not too bad fortunately as resident owners pretty good, worst are renters and with those we have gotten some evicted for rule violation.
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
Well it looks like that we do need a fining committee. Now another question? Who is actually fining? The board or the committee? And if the HOA can't lean the homes (which I knew), what legal options does an HOA have to actually collect the fines?

Any home owner who knows that HOA can't lean their house can just refuse to pay the fine. And then what?

I understand certain laws are made to protect the home owner, but you gotta give the HOA something to be able to enforce rules.

Cheers
Karl
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Karl as I read it, the Board would impose the fine, then the person would have 14 days to appeal the fine to the fine committee. If the fine committee validates the fine or they fail to appeal then they would have X number of days to pay. If they fail to pay then you would take them to court and get a judgement. Again from 720.305:

(2) The association may levy reasonable fines of up to $100 per violation against any member or any member’s tenant, guest, or invitee for the failure of the owner of the parcel or its occupant, licensee, or invitee to comply with any provision of the declaration, the association bylaws, or reasonable rules of the association. A fine may be levied for each day of a continuing violation, with a single notice and opportunity for hearing, except that the fine may not exceed $1,000 in the aggregate unless otherwise provided in the governing documents. A fine of less than $1,000 may not become a lien against a parcel. In any action to recover a fine, the prevailing party is entitled to reasonable attorney’s fees and costs from the nonprevailing party as determined by the court.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
KarlA1 (Florida)
Posts: 84
Posted:
So basically if we fine somebody $100.00 and they don't appeal, they have to pay after x days. If they don't, we have to go to court with them, which causes the HOA attorney fees. In most cases the attorney fees a probably higher than the fine. Now if I understand 720.305 correctly, we can ask the violator to pay our attorney costs, if the court decides so. If the court says no, we have to pay our attorney our of our pocket.

Also if I understand correctly, we do have the right to put a lean on a property if, and only if the fine is $1,000.00 or more.

Well don't know if it's really worth the effort to even fine somebody.

Thanks again for the very valuable information.

Cheers
Karl
GlenL (Ohio)
Posts: 5,491
Posted:
Karl the idea is not to fine but to correct the violation. So for arguments sake the violation is leaving a portable basketball hoop set up instead of put away when not in use. The Board sends a violation letter saying the hoop must be removed when not in use or it will be a $25.00 fine for each day it remains. The owner removes the hoop - no fine and everyone is happy; the Board because the hoop is put away and the H/O because it didn’t cost them anything.

Now if you have proper records and a fine policy* say three months later the hoop is left out again, automatic fine $25.00 for each day it is out and they rack up $125.00 fine. They then have 14 days to appeal the fine to the Fine Committee which upholds the fine. If they don’t pay, then the Board can sue for restitution and legal fees and if they win then they can go about recovering the award just like any other type of judgement i.e. garnishee their wages, attach their bank account or get an order to sell some of their property. While it is a pain for the HOA to go through this (we use an attorney who specializes in collections and he takes his money from the recovery) it affects the H/O by going on their credit report.

Note past due assessments can be liened but not fines in Florida - other states have different rules.

*Fine Policy states a repeat of the same violation within a year will result in an automatic fine.


Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Karl

it may seem that it isn't worth it to fine someone, the reality is that there are folks who won't take care of their violations without some enforcement and fines are a good way to accomplish that. Money speaks to almost everyone. Hopefully you don't ever have to go to court but backing down and not fining is losing the game of chicken with the homeowner.

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