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CraigC6 (Michigan)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I HAVE PREVIOUSLY DETERMINED OUR HOA IS VOLUNTARY DUE TO LACK OF ANY DEED RESTRICTIONS. MY NEXT PROBLEM IS OUR COMMUNITY WELL SYSTEM. WE HAVE ONE WELL THAT FEEDS ALL HOMES AND IT NEEDS SEPARATE MAINTENANCE, ELECTRICITY ETC. IF THE HOA IS NOT MANDATORY HOW DO WE ENFORCE WELL MAINTENANCE FEES ETC. AN ATTY SUGGESTED THAT MAYBE PEOPLE HAVE TO ABIDE BY OUR BYLAWS WHICH INCLUDES WHERE WE CAN PUT FENCES ETC IF THEY WANT WATER? ANY THOUGHTS ARE APPRECIATED
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Whoa - your HOA provides water from a community well to all homeowners - and you have NO mandatory dues to maintain this?

Our sub has a community well (actually 2) that provides water all year to over 250 homes. We have a Reserve Fund for this that only covers a few things, since the replacement tank would cost over $100,000 to replace and the top of the building would have to be removed to install it. If that blows, we go to township water . . . We have health department inspections and have to file a lot of paperwork with them, including results of testing. The pumphouse must be maintained, heat, electricity, etc. WHO and HOW is this being done in your HOA?.

Time to get into this century . . . You MUST get a plan for this water system!!
CraigC6 (Michigan)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I NEVER SAID WE DONT MAINTAIN OUR WELL OR DO LOTS OF PAPERWORK OR HAVE A FUND FOR EXPENSES. SO FAR EVERYONE PAYS TO MAINTAIN IT WEATHER MANDATORY OR NOT. THE QUESTION IS IF THEY ARE USING WATER DO THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY ALL BYLAWS WHICH DONT RELATE TO THE WATER.
LarryD10 (Texas)
Posts: 26
Posted:

Our HOA in Texas will be installing water meter and be bill for the water
usage thur TCEQ your state is
http://michigan.gov/deq you should check it out or call them best of luck.

What does by-laws say about your question,or the cc&r say. CC&R rules then By-Laws they both should be honor
LarryD10 (Texas)
Posts: 26
Posted:

Our bill will be paid to the HOA for the up kept of the well
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Yes, but bylaws can be changed. If you don't want certain bylaws, - like the ones governing fences - the Members can recind that particular bylaw. Usually the members must vote to do this (unless your bylaws say different)

Your bylaws should say how to change (amend) them. It takes a high percentage of voters to amend or recind (delete) a bylaw.

In the meantime, YES, all bylaws must be followed and obeyed. Whether or not your board is going to enforce them with fines is a whole 'nuther thing.

FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
You don't need to shout.

If there is no structure to require payments this is an unstable situation. Sooner or later someone won't pay (or will claim they're not using as much water as their neighbors...).

I find it hard to believe that this got organized without some structure (deed restrictions).
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Craig,

Are you sure that their isn't a common well agreement (similar to a private road agreement) with all the homes?

The Association may be filling that obligation and as such, membership would be mandatory.

I'd suggest spending some time at the courthouse or pay someone to research your deed and/or paperwork associated with the well.

Tim
CraigC6 (Michigan)
Posts: 6
Posted:
tim i agree that the association is filling that obligation because i have spent time with the registrar of deeds and she cannot find anything except original deed restrictions that lapsed by their own wording in 1969 and sre no longer valid

so our association is now just a voluntary one as i understand it

there is no common well agreement other than the association bylaws that talk about paying for maintenance of the system.

any other thoughts are appreciated
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
It might be time for the community to get together with an attorney and draw up new deed restrictions. In order to get them passed, I would say keep it limited to the upkeep, repair and replacement of the well and delivery system (leave off the Architectural stuff). I would also explain that failing to agree to these deed restrictions, would require the well service to charge each home for the usage and/or put the development onto the city water system.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
There is nothing in my deed that speaks about the HOA water system (installed in 1923) We have no deed restrictions but do come under the township building codes.

Our HOA also owns the roads and community center and beach.

Do you have anything else that the HOA is responsible for?

Because water is supplied by pipe to my home, I am a "member" of the HOA. I really have no choice since they control the roads and water.

But none of this is stated in my deed, except to say my property is in the XYZ subdivision.

SteveM9 (Massachusetts)
Posts: 3,699
Posted:
Quote:
There is nothing in my deed that speaks about the HOA water system (installed in 1923) We have no deed restrictions


Your deed is not going to specifically mention a well.

If your deed states your "property is in the XYZ subdivision" and that subdivision has CCR's, bylaws, dues, etc.... that "is" a deed restriction. Deeds are not black and white. They never say "deed restrictions" You just need to know how to read them and investigate things like: property is in the XYZ subdivision
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Craig:

my suggestion, if you have a good relationship with all the neighbors involved this is what I would do. Have an attorney draw up a well agreement and any simple rules you want and have all the homeowners sign and make binding on the property for future owners. The handshake agreements are ok, but new neighbors or changes in circumstances bring on new attitudes, not always for the better either.
KellyM3 (North Carolina)
Posts: 2,239
Posted:
This should not be a controversy. If the HOA wouldn't vote to maintain a community well, I'd dig my one and dare 'em to sue me.

I think the neighbors will be sensible.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> I'd dig my one and dare 'em to sue me.

Umm...most people don't really want to do this because of the cost.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CraigC6 on 11/21/2011 11:56 AM
THE QUESTION IS IF THEY ARE USING WATER DO THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY ALL BYLAWS WHICH DONT RELATE TO THE WATER.

I see two separate issues. First, did the developer grant easements or other recorded documents to all owners to use the well? Second, did the developer create some method other than the voluntary HOA, such as a private water company, to operate the well?

If all owners were granted use of the community well by the developer and also were not required to join the HOA, then there is little legal basis for compelling all owners to join the HOA. Even if the CC&R's mandated that the HOA operate the well, there is no legal basis for requiring HOA membership as a condition to use the well.

There is, however, substantial case law that holds that persons who use common facilities can be compelled to contribute to their maintenance. See Freeman v. Sorchych and especially those cases referred to in Footnote 9 at the bottom of page 14. Note that in legal terms, "dominant tenement" means the person(s) to whom an easement has been granted and "servient estate" means the property over which the easement has been granted.

Of particular note from the above footnote is: Meadow Run & Mountain Lake Park Ass'n v. Berkel, 598 A.2d 1024, 1027 (Pa. Super. Ct. 1991), "holding that repair and maintenance costs for common roads and other common areas were the responsibility of the residential users and not the homeowners' association that held title to the roads."

I would strongly suggest forwarding the above citations on to your attorney for a re-evaluation of your options.

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