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CcA
Posts: 5
Posted:
There is a comment thread on this forum about a buyer who did not know that he/she automatically became a member of the HOA once the property purchase closed. While I think that buyers should be proactive in finding out such things, there are times when they try to do so and cannot.

I am reposting my comment on this here as a new discussion thread on advice of the forum admin.

I think that North Carolina needs to be a bit more proactive in including info when a property is listed for sale that it is in an HOA. Also, buyers should be able to see a copy of any Covenants and By-laws before buying. Plus, the HOA management company should be responsive to buyers who ask them questions about the HOA before buying a property. The worst in this last regard is Sentry Management, headquartered in Florida, but quickly taking over many HOAs in other states, including North Carolina. We could not get hold of them during the time we were under contract to buy our current house and got some surprises at closing. Not doing one's due diligence is one thing, but trying to and being blocked by people not responding to emails and phone calls is another. Next time, we'll track 'em down with blood hounds.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
There's a fine line about expecting the HOA to hand over information to a potential buyer. You have to remember that a potential buyer (Until closing is finished) is NOT a member of the HOA. Once that person is considered an OWNER, then they become a HOA member and can have access to the HOA financial information. Otherwise, it's like handing over the HOA's information to complete strangers...

Keep in mind a HOA can reveal to a potential buyer things like it's existence,the amount of dues paid, what those dues payments cover, some general rule information, and where maybe to find the CC&R's (they don't have to give you a copy nor the seller). However, they really don't have to reveal any of that information but is a courtesy some HOA's have. I used to print out a brochure and have it at our mailbox area for potential buyers/current owners to review. It was a useful tool to handout to people.

Not all Real Estate agents are created equal. I often call many of them "Used Cars Salespeople of homes". There are some good ones but many bad ones as well. Some just don't do the research about the HOA to put it in their sales pitch. They may be trying to avoid it as many buyers are against HOA's. It's again up to the buyer to do their due diligence and ask. It's also why I use a Buyer's agent when purchasing. They work for you and will help find out certain information on your behalf. They just split the commission with the seller's agent. Some states don't have this option so check around...

I've seen my own HOA have advertisements in local ads NOT listing the HOA in it. It's a surprise to me it's not done. However, most people know there's an HOA just by reputation. Our area doesn't have many HOA's so they are pretty recognizable which subdivision has one. Otherwise, it could be very difficult to know.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
CcA,

Many States now have disclosure laws when purchasing a home within an HOA. However, those laws do not require the HOA to disclose but the seller (who is responsible for requesting and getting the info from the HOA and giving it to the buyer). Therefore, any issues of non-disclosure is between the buyer and seller. Unfortunately, many buyers will blame the HOA (who is not a party to the sale).

Title Companies or attorneys who perform the title search should also be informing the buyer that their are deed restrictions (CC&Rs) attached to the property. Typically, this is just one more piece of paper of many that get signed on closing day. Unfortunately, most buyers won't take the time to actually read all the paperwork they are signing.

You might want to contact your State representative and make the suggestion to have disclosure laws. Here is a link to Virginia's disclosure law that you might want to suggest as an example to your State legislature.

Hope this helps,

Tim
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Better belive that I would want to see the financial picture of an HOA before I bought into its obligations.

I'd like to see:

Is the HOA involved in any lawsuit?
Does it have a Reserve Fund and how is it funded?
Balance sheet
End of last year finanical report.
CCRs
Bylaws

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes, it is a good idea to see this information. Just like all other corporations, they must disclose issues such as lawsuit involvement or other negative issues. If you ever get a "Prospectus" as a shareholder in regular corporation, you will find this information in there. It's usually hidden about half-way in or in a special spot that needs almost the whole document read to find it. A corporation must disclose certain negative reports not only positive ones to their shareholders. Owner's being considered "Share holders" in the HOA, means they are to be informed of the corporations "health".

However, as I stated before, you are NOT a shareholder or a HOA member until you have signed that dotted line. Which means the HOA doesn't have to release information to you as you are NOT a shareholder/nor member of the HOA. You can indeed ask questions of neighbors, HOA BOD, or the management company. Just don't expect them to give you answers or documents. They have a vested interest and can disclose only what they want if they want.

Do the laws need to be changed? I wholeheartedly agree. There should be more disclosure to buyers when purchasing in a HOA. It's really a matter of the information is out there but no one knows how to find it. How many of us knew to go to our Court house for a copy of the CC&R's prior to buying? How many realtors really understand HOA's? Surprisingly little as they aren't responsible for informing you of the HOA's rules. Did you know your getting denied certain types of loans because of the health of your HOA? Certain loan programs or rates are effected by the number of overall rental property a HOA may have or their financial situation. Would you know to ask your mortgage broker these questions? Did you ever see that piece of paper the closing attorney had you sign about there being a HOA? I am sure they breezed past it after about 20 minutes of non-stop signing of paperwork...

This is the information the general public doesn't even know but is how they are supposed to get information on the HOA they are buying into. It's usually lessons learned while living in a HOA that drives people to avoid them...Making it that much harder to sell your property in a HOA....


Former HOA President
JohnM48 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 89
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/21/2011 5:05 AM

I'd like to see:

Is the HOA involved in any lawsuit?
Does it have a Reserve Fund and how is it funded?
Balance sheet
End of last year finanical report.
CCRs
Bylaws

Pennsylvania law requires that the prospective buyer be given this information and a bit more. A buyer can walk away from a signed deal, without penalty, if the information is not provided or is provided too late to allow the buyer time to review.

It is the seller's obligation to provide this information, but the association is obligated to provide it to the seller upon request.

Association President
JeanneK3 (Maryland)
Posts: 562
Posted:
Susan W.
Maryland law also requires that the seller provide all this information to a potential buyer in what is known as a "resale packet." Seems like some states need to catch up.
Jeanne
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
even if state law doesn't require it, if I was selling and a buyer wanted the information I would get that for them. States are slowing coming around to this...
BB5 (Missouri)
Posts: 145
Posted:
I agree 100% a listing should state a property is in an HOA the first who should be held responsible are the listing agent and the homeowner next the management co. then title company and last but not least the purchaser all of these people had a job and were getting paid to do a job, past due amounts should be paid by all of these "professionals" with the first on this list paying the most and the buyer paying the least. I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere I had to (hunt) somebody down for answers.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BB5 on 11/21/2011 3:05 PM
I agree 100% a listing should state a property is in an HOA the first who should be held responsible are the listing agent and the homeowner next the management co. then title company and last but not least the purchaser all of these people had a job and were getting paid to do a job, past due amounts should be paid by all of these "professionals" with the first on this list paying the most and the buyer paying the least. I sure wouldn't want to live anywhere I had to (hunt) somebody down for answers.

You have to remember that Real estate agents sell homes to make money, if they are not required to report something then chances are they may not bring it up if it has a chance to hurt their sale. Some are more ethical than others. At the end of the day it is the purchasers responsibility to know what you buy. Some states have better disclosure laws than others, but four standard questions in any home sale should be:

1. is this home in an HOA
2. how or where can I get deed restrictions or bylaws
3. Is this HOA party to any current lawsuits
4. How much are annual dues

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