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SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
After months of arguing with our board to accept the fact that they can't do what they think
they can (based on our governing documents), I wrote an email to one of the people on the board
(because the primary person who initially made the comment refused to reply to any of our emails).

I told this person that if he and the other person still believed the board has powers it doesn't have that they should both step down, as they're showing an unwillingness to uphold the law, and therefore are a threat to our community.

At a recent meeting, this same person said that the things I said could be considered inflammatory and suggested they could be grounds for a lawsuit (and left it at that). The things they were saying could have easily gotten the board sued (if they had carried them out), so therefore, they are a threat to our community. How can that be considered inflammatory?

Steve
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
With today's society, the term "threat" can have several meanings.

I personally you would have been better to say that they weren't upholding their fiduciary duty or that those failing to follow the law opens up the Association to legal challenges or ask if they were aware that Association insurance doesn't cover Directors who knowingly violate the law.

It's also possible that you might be misunderstanding the issue or there could be two interpretations of the statute or governing document. Without knowing specifics it's difficult to offer better advice.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Steve...As Tim mentioned if we know more about the issues we could give better advice. The problem with HOA's is you are dealing with people's most important investment, their home, and that alone tends to escalate and bring in a lot of emotion which makes things worse.
FionaC (California)
Posts: 212
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BradP on 11/12/2011 3:35 PM
Steve...As Tim mentioned if we know more about the issues we could give better advice. The problem with HOA's is you are dealing with people's most important investment, their home, and that alone tends to escalate and bring in a lot of emotion which makes things worse.

I totally concur with Brad. We need to know specifically what was said etc. A few years back our President at the time made a comment to the board in an email form. Our budget at the time was due to be passed for the next fiscal year. We had a full Board, me including. the majority just said it's ok and declined improved some much needed property maintenance including painting our building ( which 5 years later is just getting DONE) The President at the time felt the board who just flightly said yeah yeah without looking at the actual budgeting needs and reserve study was threatend with a lawsuit.

OUR OWN PRESIDENT THREATENED THE BOARD.. saying that you are not exercising fiduciary responsibility to maintain our community etc. ( grant it her claim had merit ) Her threat really lit the fire to motivate the board members to take a thorough look at the budget and needs for improvement etc. Truth be told, our President didn't have two nickles to run together and could never afford an atty... but the threat brought about what she wanted.
Point being??

You can threaten to sue for anything. It takes a lot of money for an atty, and frankly, every time I hear the threat of a suit for this or that... it' s like sure, lets wait for the court papers to be served.. Lots of hot air for sure.
SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
It's a long story, but here's the gist. We live in a mixed community of single-family homes and townhomes. Our covenants clearly state that the townhome reserves are solely for the use of the townhome owners. It's very clear. Despite being shown this evidence, the borrow refuses to retract their statement, and out of months of frustration, I made that comment (because they do post a financial threat by saying they have these powers. There is no doubt in my mind that if they ever DID borrow from the townhome reserves, they would be sued. Hope that helps.

So, now they've made the comment that my remarks could be considered inflammatory and could be grounds for a lawsuit (but left it at that. They didn't come out and say "we're going to sue you"). The whole statement they made is ridiculous to me. It's nothing short of intimidation to get me to shut up about the issue they created.

Steve
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
The threat of a lawsuit is groundless. HOA board members are elected officials. The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Sullivan v. New York Times that elected officials cannot sue those who criticize them unless the statements are both false and defamatory.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Steve,

If the HOA is the keeper of the Reserves, they do have the right to "borrow". However, when they do, they must show a clear plan on how the funds will be paid back.

SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
What if our covenants say otherwise? To us, this sentence means what it means. The reserves are for the towmhome owners only. Would you agree?

“All amounts collected by the Association as Neighborhood Assessments shall be held in trust for and expended solely for the benefit of the Neighborhood for which they were collected and shall be accounted for separately from the Association’s general funds.”

And it does clearly define neighorhood as the townhomes in our covenants.

Steve
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Are you saying that there are two separate Reserve funds and the board borrowed from one to fund the needs of the other?
SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
There is the general "Site fund" that we all contribute to (meaning both the single-family homeowners and the townhome owners), then each of the three townhomes has their own reserve funds for things such as power washing, roof replacements, etc.

The board has NOT borrowed any money at this time. The problem is they think they can, and that's what concerns us. Any board which thinks it can go above the limitations of the covenants is a dangerous board and they are setting themselves up for a lawsuit should they ever do such a thing. Despite all the evidence, the refuse to acknowledge that they can NOT borrow from the townhome reserves.

Steve
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Steve:

sounds like an intimidation tactic to me...in reality they would have to show that your statements were false, that you knew they were false and then show the damages those statements caused other than hurt feelings.
SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Larry, thanks for that info on the Supreme Court ruling. That looks promising. And Brad, what you're saying makes sense as well. I know it was all about intimidation, and it worked that night. But after having had a chance to step back, read the info here, and also read our covenants, I feel much better. It's really disgusting the way some board members act. How in the Hell these kind of people get on the board is beyond me. I think most of them are on a power trip.

Thanks for all the responses so far.

Steve
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveB15 on 11/13/2011 5:13 AM

“All amounts collected by the Association as Neighborhood Assessments shall be held in trust for and expended solely for the benefit of the Neighborhood for which they were collected and shall be accounted for separately from the Association’s general funds.”

Steve,

An incorporated Association is a legal entity under the law. As a legal entity they are allowed to lend and borrow money. Therefore, an argument could easily be made (and I believe that this is what your BOD is doing) that as the legal entity responsible for those funds, they may lend or invest those funds as they see fit. Doing so would not, in my opinion, be a violation of the section you cited.

Now, do I think it's a good idea? - No.
Would I do it? - I don't think so, but I don't know all the specifics
Should the money be paid back? - Absolutely. There should also be documents drawn up showing how much was borrowed and what the repayment rate would be and if any interest would be charged.

Note: The authority for your Association, a nonprofit corporation, to borrow this money would come from
TN 48-53-102 which says, in part:

(a) Unless its charter provides otherwise, every corporation has perpetual duration and succession in its corporate name and has the same powers as an individual to do all things necessary or convenient to carry out its affairs, including, without limitation, power to:

(8) Lend money, invest and reinvest its funds, and receive and hold real and
personal property as security for repayment;

(19) Do all things necessary or convenient, not inconsistent with law, to further
the activities and affairs of the corporation.

Tim
TomE4 (South Carolina)
Posts: 26
Posted:
Tim,

I would agree that it has the right to borrow money (from a LENDER). But, do you still think they have the right to borrow from the townhome reserves, given the following paragraph (taken from our covenants)? To me, this is saying the funds in the townhome reserves are specifically for the townhome owners ONLY (and keep in mind that our covenants do clearly define Neighborhood as meaning the townhomes):

“All amounts collected by the Association as Neighborhood Assessments shall be held in trust for and expended solely for the benefit of the Neighborhood for which they were collected and shall be
accounted for separately from the Association’s general funds.”

Steve
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Tom,

Because the Association also has the legal right to lend money, I do believe that they can lend it from one exclusive fund to another exclusive fund. Therefore, yes, I do believe that the argument can be made that they have the right to lend the funds within that reserve to anyone they wish (including themselves), providing proper paperwork is drawn up to show it as a loan with repayment requirements and penalties for failure to repay.

As we all know, having the legal right to do something is not the same thing as doing what is moral or ethical.
I would not do it. Instead, I would raise the assessments or issue a special assessment to address what is needed.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SteveB15 on 11/13/2011 5:13 AM

“All amounts collected by the Association as Neighborhood Assessments shall be held in trust for and expended solely for the benefit of the Neighborhood for which they were collected and shall be accounted for separately from the Association’s general funds.”


The phrase "held in trust" implies that the Neighborhood Assessments must be under the control of a trustee. Is there such a trustee and who is it? The phrase "expended solely for the benefit of the Neighborhood for which they were collected" would seem to preclude the master association from tapping into these funds whether there is a separate trustee or not.
SteveB15 (Tennessee)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Larry, that's a good question. Given how they've fought us for months to resolve this issue, I doubt they'd even be willing to provide that info to us. They've stonewalled us all along. We can ask, but I won't be holding my breath

Steve

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