HOA Board overturning an HOA membership vote

Started by BjN • 13 replies • 4006 views

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BjN (Virginia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

At our annual meeting in 2010 the members voted to place a lock on a gate within the community. In April of this year, in a closed meeting, the HOA board overturned that vote and decided not to lock the gate. The members were given no notice of the meeting or of the intent for the board to even consider overturning an HOA membership vote. The April minutes were just posted at the end of October on the HOA website. Anybody else run into a situation where a Board overturned a community vote? It's actually a pretty trivial issue (the locked gate itself), but I am concerned about the board taking an action - in a closed meeting, on top of that - to overturn a vote that was a community vote.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

First off the members should not be voting on that issue anyway, those types of things are board related decisions that they alone should vote on. The board is elected to handle the day to day functions of an HOA and that to me is a day to day function. Members will only vote at elections, covenant revisions, special assessments and others as specified in your covenants. The board does have the right to reverse its decision, they can't strike it from the record but if a motion is made to reconsider and it is approved by the board then it is.

Consult your state statutes, many states are now enacting laws that are designed to make HOA board proceedings more transparent and it is possible yours is one of them. Case in point, prior to 2011 what your board did in Kansas would have been fine, since the start of 2011 we are required to give notice and hold open board meetings.

DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565

Posted:

As I answered to your other recent post - send the board a letter citing the specific provisions of 55-510 that they are not following.

You mentioned a closed meeting. If you are referring to an executive session then 55-510 contains the specific reasons why a board may (but doesn't have to) convene in executive session. Overturning a membership vote is not one of those reasons. Furthermore, in order to convene an executive session a board must first convene in open session, then adjourn into the executive session by stating the subject to be discussed in executive session. Then they must reconvene in open session and, if any decisions were reached, they must be voted on in open session.

BjN (Virginia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Normally, I would say that's right - the members not voting on the issue. Ironically, it was the current board president who insisted on a community vote on the issue (she was not on the board at the time). So, it was voted on in an annual meeting. However, now that she is on the board, she has the board vote to overturn a decision that she insited be taken to the community to begin with. Again, it seems that if it went to the community to begin with, it would be inappropriate for the board to overturn the decision - especially in a closed meeting.

and, yes we do have open meeting laws. Very specific that they have to give notice of meetings, make agenda available, and have open comment at every meeting. The board also refuses to do follow the law on open meetings.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

I think you got some good advice on how to handle the open meeting laws...on this issue above I don't see anything wrong with it, the previous board president should not have let it go to a vote of the members but even if he/she did the current board has the authority to do what they did in my opinion. The open meeting issue is troubling though and needs to get resolved, hopefully the threat of consequences will be enough.

BjN (Virginia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

By "closed" meeting, I simply meant they didn't open the meeting to any community members. As I mentioned, they refuse to give notice of any of their meetings. They only within the last week posted minutes of their April and June meetings, which is how I found out about them overturning the membership vote to begin with. This also violates state law in that Virginia requires the minutes be available before the next meeting or within 60 days, whichever occurs first.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047

Posted:

BjN,

Do you recall how the proposal was worded that the members voted on?
Do you have an idea on what the percentage of the membership was present?

I ask these questions because all of them can have a bearing on why the Board decided to do what it did.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

The board probably found out that the "vote" was not enforceable, legal or within the rights of an HOA. Maybe the municipality fire dept. or police or ordinances prohibit this kind of "lock" on the gates. Maybe it was cost prohibitive or not feasible.

The board should have "vetted" the vote before it went in front of the Members.

You have the right to see the minutes of the meeting where they "recinded" the vote of the Members and the reason for doing it. Even though the discussion was in ES, the motion had to have been made, discussed and then voted on in an open board meeting.

Let us know.

BjN (Virginia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Nope. The fire department is fine with a lock. That was vetted with them before the HOA took the vote. They just have to have a key. Our board does not hold open meetings or give any notice of its meetings (yes, that violates state law).

The issue here, to me, is not the lock (I really could care less), it's the board overturning a vote by the community. If they can take such an action at will, what's the point of taking any votes at any meetings. This particular issue was voted on at the March 2010 meeting and discussed at the March 2011 meeting (there was no motion or even discussion of revisiting the issue). Then one month later the board, with no notice to the community, overturns the HOA vote - stating in the minutes, that they deemed it wasn't necessary. The minutes were just posted last week (six months after the board's decision).

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

Was this motion (decison to get a locked system AND to spend money on the locks) on the agenda and was there Notice to the Members that there would be a vote on such an important issue?

If so, and it passed, the board is out of order in overturning the vote.

If not, then the Members had no right to vote on such a cost related issue that had not gone thru committee and not had been Noticed for Vote to all HOA Members.

SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202

Posted:

BjN (Virginia)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Yes. It was on the agenda for the annual meeting with notice given in advance of the meeting.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BjN on 11/04/2011 7:11 AM
Nope. The fire department is fine with a lock. That was vetted with them before the HOA took the vote. They just have to have a key. Our board does not hold open meetings or give any notice of its meetings (yes, that violates state law).

The issue here, to me, is not the lock (I really could care less), it's the board overturning a vote by the community. If they can take such an action at will, what's the point of taking any votes at any meetings. This particular issue was voted on at the March 2010 meeting and discussed at the March 2011 meeting (there was no motion or even discussion of revisiting the issue). Then one month later the board, with no notice to the community, overturns the HOA vote - stating in the minutes, that they deemed it wasn't necessary. The minutes were just posted last week (six months after the board's decision).

As I here you vent and I think you have reason too It is pretty clear your board and potentially the community doesn't have an idea of how an HOA should be run. By that I mean there are certain things that are homeowner decisions and then there are things that are Board decisions. The lock never should have been put to a homeowner vote and even if it was I still believe the board was within its rights to change course on that decision. The fact they did it in a closed meeting wasn't proper but they had the right in my opinion to overturn that decision. The things that are homeowner votes such as elections, special assessments or covenants the board has no jurisdictional control to change.

JeanI (Louisiana)
Posts: 112

Posted:

Your legal documents should specify what issues the members have a right to vote on. Usually they are limited to voting for the Board, changing the bylaws, articles and covenants and recalling a board member. state law may not be so specific but your documents should be. JI

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