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RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
I am the treasurer of an HOA that is not new, but is just learning to function well for the first time this year. We are a very new board and have lots of questions. So far, we have made several mistakes, but fortunately we are learning A LOT from them. One of the larger mistakes we have made is allowing our (TERRIBLE) MC to manage our money alone. Very recently, we had the President of the Board added to the checking account, which I monitor VERY closely. There have been discrepancies, and other issues with the mismanagement of our funds. The MC even deposited our opening monies in his own business account and shorted us more than $2000 when he transferred the funds to our new account. I am aware that this is illegal, and to date he has replaced the money and blamed it on incompetent help.

We are completely unable to get out of this crazy contract with the MC that was signed one month before I was elected. So my question is this: I want to open another account in addition to the operating account maintained by the management company. I would like to have this second (savings)account accessible to the board members, but not the MC. Then every month we would withdraw all money from the operating account in excess of $2000 and add it to the savings account. This way, the MC would only have access to $2000 or less of the HOA's money at any given time. Is this acceptable, allowed, or common practice? Which board members should be authorized signers on the savings account?

I really appreciate any guidance and experience you could offer.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Rose:

I am not versed on the account but would offer this for your MC...what language exists in your contract with them to terminate them? Hopefully the previous board had enough sense to give themselves an out in the contract. If they didn't one thing to look at is there is typically language in contracts about both parties having to obey the law. In the case of him "misplacing" your money that surely was a violation of the law and would have given you an opportunity to end the contract with cause at that point. Moving forward I would have your board write them a letter telling them that any unexplained fiscal discrepancies will result in immediate termination of the contract. I would furthermore put in writing the board's expectations for the MC and let them know that failure to meet those expectations will result in contract termination. Unless this contract is totally jacked up you should have the ability to get out of it that way. Perhaps by being a thorn in their side they will let you out of it.

I am not versed well enough on the bank stuff to know the right answer, I would almost see if you can take that completely away from them if you are concerned that much
RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks Brad. We have contacted more than one lawyer. All claim that the contract is in fact one-sided and should never have been signed by the previous board. There is a portion of the contract that prohibits "comingling" funds on the part of the MC which he clearly did. We tried to fire him but he insists that we should buy him out of his contract which he knows better than anyone we cannot afford to do. It would cost a lot to take him to court and legally terminate him, and unfortunately our HOA does not have this type of money. It looks like we are stuck with him for eighteen more months as so far we are only six months into a two year contract. Right now I am looking for the most cost-effective band-aid for this awful situation, and one that gives the HOA control of most of our own money. As far as my concern, I am babysitting every tiny financial move he makes (hopefully making him want to quit) and I don't think he will try to walk away with any more money, at least not if he doesn't want to be reported to the authorities.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
What does your contract say about bank accounts?

remember the manager works for you. Unless specifically prohibited in your contract, just open another account. transfer all funds to that account and instruct the manager to deposit all assessments to that account.

Do not add your manager to the account and request that he writes checks out of that account and sends them to you for signature.

A very common practice is to require two signatures on checks where one is of a management company and one of a board member.

One option to get out of your contract is to consult an attorney and have them write a 'nice' letter to him that he is in violation of criminal laws. you are willing not to pursue criminal chargers if the lets you out of the contract. That may get his attention. If he kept any money it could be theft.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RoseW1 on 11/03/2011 11:03 AM
Thanks Brad. We have contacted more than one lawyer. All claim that the contract is in fact one-sided and should never have been signed by the previous board. There is a portion of the contract that prohibits "comingling" funds on the part of the MC which he clearly did. We tried to fire him but he insists that we should buy him out of his contract which he knows better than anyone we cannot afford to do. It would cost a lot to take him to court and legally terminate him, and unfortunately our HOA does not have this type of money. It looks like we are stuck with him for eighteen more months as so far we are only six months into a two year contract. Right now I am looking for the most cost-effective band-aid for this awful situation, and one that gives the HOA control of most of our own money. As far as my concern, I am babysitting every tiny financial move he makes (hopefully making him want to quit) and I don't think he will try to walk away with any more money, at least not if he doesn't want to be reported to the authorities.

Rose:

The option you have if he clearly violated the contract is to tell him his is done and refuse to pay him anymore. Then the ball is in his court whether he wants to go to court to try and sue you or not. If he is involved in criminal activity chances are he will cut his loss and leave. Of course this is a calculated risk. He isn't going to go quietly, he wants his money. He may however, get very tired of being "forced" to do his job the right way and decide it isn't worth the money.

You don't have to go to court to get out of the contract. You can refuse to pay him and tell him he is done, that may cause him to initiate court proceedings. Is there a state agency that oversees management companies in your state? Contact them, contact your local BBB, put some heat on this dude.

For future reference never, ever, accept a contract from another party at its face value. As someone who issues 70-100 contracts a year for facility usage I fully expect revisions to come back because our contracts are very heavily slanted in our favor. Every company that does contracts has wiggle room built in, there are certain things they won't budge on, but often times they will on a lot of it. The goal shoudl be to get the contract to a neutral point where it is equally beneficial to both parties.
RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Jeff, we have contacted a lawyer and that letter is in the works. We have been notifying him in writing weekly about every tiny thing he does that is not up to the Board's standards. Part of what we pay him his excessive fee for each month is bookkeeping. We decided that he should have to live up to his end of the contract and be allowed to sign the checks in a way leaving him enough rope to hang himself.

Brad, he is most definitely not going to go quietly. He actually walked out of a board meeting and left the board members sitting there alone in his office because he was insulted that we were angry about the monetary discrepancy. The board said that we wanted to fire him and so he kept standing up to leave. He said he doesn't have to put up these accusations and unappreciative attitudes. Our secretary kept asking why he wouldn't let us out of the contract since both parties really don't get along and don't work well together. He simply repeated over and over that if we were unhappy we should buy him out (to the tune of $20K). So I pointed out that he enjoys collecting a lot of money for a small amount of work. And that's it he just stood up and left, saying something to his assistant about how I am "just some math teacher."

Great advice about negotiating all future contracts, unfortunately I have zero experience in that area. I am a teacher with an undergraduate degree in math, that's why I signed on to be the treasurer. I don't think I have ever negotiated a contract in my life.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
We have special checks and ledger to help monitor and control our money. ALL checks take a 2 signature system. There has to be 3 signatures altogether on the checks written. The MC signs and issues the checks AFTER board approval. (Unless it's normal operating costs like utilities, insurance payments, etc...) That check then has to be signed by 2 approved check signers registered at our bank. That usually is the President, Vice-President, or Secretary. Which changes out every year. Atleast 2 of them have to sign the checks as well.

Some may say the banks don't check etc...Ours did check and if your bank isn't, then change banks or discuss the issue with them. It worked for us in making sure all the checks were tracked and knew where they were going. Any special project expense was openly discussed at our OPEN meetings for members to know where the money was going. It isn't the board's money but it's the WHOLE HOA membership money. Always be open even when the arrows are flying...

Former HOA President
RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Thanks for the advice, Melissa. The board discussed it and we are so new and inexperienced we really don't know if we need to call an open meeting and notify the homeowners of the discrepancy that I found between the last MC's closing withdrawal and the new MC's opening deposit. I found the discrepancy and asked the new MC about it several times and was brushed off and strung along until I got the documentation from other previous MC. we changed MC's in May, I came on in June, and received NO financials until August. I found the discrepancy in August, asked about it from late August until I got the info myself in mid-October and the board presented it to the new MC then. Yesterday, the money was replaced. Is this something I need to report to the homeowners? immediately? or at the next general meeting? I'm not sure. Please advise.
RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 11/03/2011 3:31 PM
Rose,

Are you associated with a poster by the name PaulaM4?

I ask because the questions and background are similar. Even if you are not associated with them, you might gain some inside from that thread:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/123314/view/topic/Default.aspx

Tim,

Paula is our Secretary! I am very new on here and had no idea how to link the two threads. Thanks!!

Rose Anne
RoseW1 (New York)
Posts: 6
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 11/03/2011 3:31 PM
Rose,

Are you associated with a poster by the name PaulaM4?

I ask because the questions and background are similar. Even if you are not associated with them, you might gain some inside from that thread:

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/123314/view/topic/Default.aspx

Tim,

Paula is our Secretary! I am very new on here and had no idea how to link the two threads. Thanks!!

Rose Anne

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