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KellyP3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Could someone please interpret this covenant? "No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence." Do this keep a homeowner from erecting a shed for storage purposes?
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyP3 on 11/01/2011 2:16 PM
Could someone please interpret this covenant? "No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence." Do this keep a homeowner from erecting a shed for storage purposes?

'or other out-building '

Yes, I am afraid so. This is the 'catch all' restriction.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
I would actually interpret it as yes, you can build one.

".... shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence" I would read this as in if it's not for residence - you are fine.
PetunkaM (Florida)
Posts: 1,009
Posted:
Jeff,
gosh you are right. Sorry.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Agreed.

Such structures are allowed EXCEPT as a 'residence'.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyP3 on 11/01/2011 2:16 PM
Could someone please interpret this covenant? "No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence." Do this keep a homeowner from erecting a shed for storage purposes?

I Agree also.

As long as the structure is not used as a residence, it is OK. Actually, it makes sense. Such structures probably wouldn't get an occupancy permit from the local authorities anyway, and so could not be legally used as a residence.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,047
Posted:
Kelly,

Is this the full language?

Typically, this type of language includes a requirement for Association approval to build or change anything on the exterior of the property.

Since the statement includes the word "or" I see this as a combination of two restrictions in one sentence:

No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected as either a temporary or permanent residence.
AND
(if one exists) No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be used as either a temporary or permanent residence.

I can also see how some might interpret it this way:

No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected.
AND
No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be used as either a temporary or permanent residence.

However, I suspect that you still need to get prior approval to have a storage shed.

Here is a link to a thread about interpreting statutes (works just as well with covenants):

http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/view/topic/postid/103015/Default.aspx
KellyP3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The full covenant reads:"No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence. No housetrailer or houseboat can be parked on any of the lots." I personally interpreted the covenant to mean that a structure cannot be erected for a residence nor can an existing out-building be used as a residence. I feel the second sentence reinforces the intention of keeping residents from living within any structure other than their home.
Our city codes allow one out-building (with guidelines: painted same color as the house etc.) Currently, we have a few homeowners challenging this because a neighbor built a shed (up to city codes) that is visible from their properties. (back yards adjoin) There is talk of a lawsuit....which is sad. Interesting note: there are about a dozen sheds in our neighborhood--but this is the only one they are targeting. We are a neighborhood that is about 30 years old. Our neighborhood was built in 12 phases with 12 different (although very similar) sets of covenants. We are looking into the cost of having an attorney combine and define our covenants.
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Are they targeting the association with a lawsuit or the owner that built the shed? What is the basis of their claim?

If this is only one owner attacking another and majority supports having sheds (what a novel idea) why not amend you covenants and fix the language so it's explicit.

KellyP3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 4
Posted:
They are only targeting one neighbor ("because I can see it") and are considering suing the neighbor, not the association. We are looking into updating our covenants to be more precise. I was curious to see how others would interpret that covenant.
The minority of homeowners (maybe 12 out of 235) have sheds.
BruceF1 (Connecticut)
Posts: 2,535
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KellyP3 on 11/02/2011 11:35 AM
They are only targeting one neighbor ("because I can see it") and are considering suing the neighbor, not the association. We are looking into updating our covenants to be more precise. I was curious to see how others would interpret that covenant.
The minority of homeowners (maybe 12 out of 235) have sheds.

You said someone is "considering" bringing suit.

Depending on the circumstances, any lawyer who believes the case is without merit, likely will not take the suit.

People will sue for any reason at all. It doesn't mean they'll win.
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Your CCRs say:

No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected
or
used as either a temporary or permanent residence.

So - how is it that sheds are approved in your HOA?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This lawsuit is kind of frivolous. I don't think the neigbhor has a foot to stand on. It would fall under the HOA to take action against the owner IF the shed violates the rules NOT the individual owner/neighbor. They are kind of barking up the wrong tree in their lawsuit. If anything, that owner needs to present their case to the HOA board to decide if action needs to be taken. Although, the HOA shouldn't involve themselves in a lawsuit either. They should have other options other than suing. Some HOA's are allowed to remove the violation at the owner's cost. Meaning they can remove the violation and send the bill of removal to that owner. If that owner doesn't pay, then they can LIEN that owner for that bill. Although this process has it's issues but it is an option.

I just wanted to point out one issue about sheds. They shouldn't be attached to the homes. This is an insurance issue. The structure can be a few inches from the home but NOT attached due to fire hazaard issues. We allowed storage sheds in the backyard but they couldn't be attached to the homes or used as homes. A consideration when approving such structures in the future. Refer the owner to the insurer on adding such structures besides just the board. You don't want the HOA responsible for these structures in case they get damaged.


Former HOA President
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Kelly,

this sounds like a dispute between neighbors. the association should definitely stay out of it or risk. You definately don't want to set a precedent here.

Melissa, why is that that shed can't be attached to a home? I can see that it can't be build into the home, but why wouldn't you be able to attache it with lets say screws? Insurances definitely allow for that or I should say don't care about that.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You may want to discuss this with your insurance but I had an homeowner who had this issue. If the structure is attached, then it can pose a fire risk or not be covered by your insurance if something were to happen. That's to say that if a fire broke out in the shed and spread to the house, there could be an issue. That being the structure may not be part of the coverage on your home. Basically, the cost of that structure may not be covered but the home would. So don't expect getting money to cover that loss and anything inside of it. You have to disclose it to your insurer if you want the contents protected.

Former HOA President
JeffR7 (California)
Posts: 251
Posted:
Melissa, this must have been some kind of edge case. Insurances typically don't specify where something is located, they say what's covered and what's not. Usually a typical homeowners insurance will cover a main structure and allocate some money for additional structures like sheds. Having something attached to a building doesn't make it build it.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Kelly

after reading all this I think the association needs to just stand back and let whatever happens, happen. In this situation I interpret you covenants to read that an outbuilding is allowed as long as it isn't used for living. If that is the interpretation of the board and they went through the approval process then the HOA can stand back and let the neighbors duke it out.

Someone made the comment that the lawsuit is frivolous, I don't agree with that. Homeowners have the right to sue other homeowners if there is a breach of contract. In this case the homeonwers suing must feel that the shed is a breach of contract or the covenants they all agreed to and if so they are entitled to seek relief as homeowners.

And according to my insurance agent it makes no difference if my shed is attached or 20 miles away from my house, it is covered all the same.
PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SusanW1 on 11/02/2011 12:33 PM
Your CCRs say:

No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected
or
used as either a temporary or permanent residence.

So - how is it that sheds are approved in your HOA?


If such buildings are not allowed outright... why the added "or used" stipulation?

Clearly it is meant to restrict their use not existence.
LarryB13 (Arizona)
Posts: 4,099
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 11/02/2011 1:51 PM
It would fall under the HOA to take action against the owner IF the shed violates the rules NOT the individual owner/neighbor. They are kind of barking up the wrong tree in their lawsuit. If anything, that owner needs to present their case to the HOA board to decide if action needs to be taken.

It all depends on the provisions in the CC&R's and/or state law. My CC&R's allow owners to enforce the covenants with or without the approval of the association.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
"No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence."

This does NOT allow a shed. It is not well written either, I think they tried to get too many things in the same sentence, but in my mind the interpretation is unambiguous.

The thing is- you can erect a garage or barn or outbuilding but you don't erect a trailer.

So I read it as:

No tent, garage, barn, or other building shall be erected (since erection does not apply to trailers)

No trailer, tent, garage, barn, or oother outbuilding shall be used as a temporary or permanent residence.

PeterD3 (Florida)
Posts: 708
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredS7 on 11/08/2011 7:14 AM
"No trailer, tent, garage, barn or other out-building shall be erected or used as either a temporary or permanent residence."

This does NOT allow a shed. It is not well written either, I think they tried to get too many things in the same sentence, but in my mind the interpretation is unambiguous.

The thing is- you can erect a garage or barn or outbuilding but you don't erect a trailer.

So I read it as:

No tent, garage, barn, or other building shall be erected (since erection does not apply to trailers)

No trailer, tent, garage, barn, or oother outbuilding shall be used as a temporary or permanent residence.


I have lived in 3 Fla. HOAs with this same language in the CC&Rs.... EVERY house has a Garage, some have sheds too!
SusanW1 (Michigan)
Posts: 5,202
Posted:
Since the OP has taken ONE sentence out for questioning, it is difficult to really understand in context.

What else do the CCRs say? Do they reference garages or free-standing sheds.

Only in context can we fully understand the meaning of this ONE sentence.
KellyP3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 4
Posted:
The two sentences I sent make up the entire covenant. The remaining covenants (15)are very general as to one home per lot, easements, cleanliness etc. I feel this entire covenant is referring to the shed or out-building and its use...not existence. The second sentence referencing housetrailers/boats reinforces the idea that you can only live in your house-not in another structure on your lot. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Our HOA dues are voluntary and our board has no guidelines as to what actions we can take for violations.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
> I feel this entire covenant is referring to the shed or out-building and its use...not existence.

I do not see how you get this. It says clearly "shall not be erected."

The sentences are addressing both the erection AND use.

> I have lived in 3 Fla. HOAs with this same language in the CC&Rs.... EVERY house has a Garage, some have sheds too!

It is well known that many HOAs are lax in enforcing the covenants. This does not change what they SAY or MEAN however.

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