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Subject: Going to court w/neighbor - HOA won't help

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JeffR7
(California)

Posts:245

10/28/2011 6:36 PM
Melissa, Bruce is absolutely correct. Not only IRS has absolutely no interest in where your business is located but they have no way of knowing if it's even in an HOA or a condo? To them it's an address. If you get audited and they find out that you deducted something that you weren't suppose to it will not have any affect on it being in an HOA IRS rules are not any different for HOA homes vs. not HOA homes. It seems like you are trying to give advice on a subject that you are not proficient at.

MariB
(South Carolina)

Posts:33

10/28/2011 7:14 PM
Thanks so much for your words JonD. That meant a lot to me. Some times I just feel like giving up but I try to keep plugging along to see it through. Thanks everyone else for your input. My neighbor does have a business license. I found a record of it online. He does not use his resident address as his business address. He used his parent's address. His parents live in a nice residential neighborhood and no way would that neighborhood allow a business. Zoning guy even drove out to the address he listed as his business and saw that it was his parent's house. When I say this guy runs his business from home, I mean he has his employees (most illegal aliens) come and go from his house all during the day. He keeps his chopped wood and yard debris in the backyard behind the fence. He has supplies in the garage and in the front yard..i.e. trashy looking. The traffic, trash, hanging out of employees and noise from his company is a nuisance to what should be a quiet neighborhood cul-de-sac. This would go on daily. Since taking the pics and videos I do have several videos of him taking out wads of cash and paying the employees. I mentioned this to zoning and was told I could report him to the IRS too. My neighbor's attorney requested all the evidence and e-mails from myself to zoning. They were turned over so they are aware of the evidence. My neighbor is aware that I was the one that reported him. I think the evidence that I do have has scared him i.e. he could get in some trouble. We'll see how it goes on Monday. The zoning dept would not have taken on this case if they didn't think they could win. They looked at the evidence and that's why they decided to go forward with it.

PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958

10/28/2011 7:31 PM
Mari, while I did not have a chance to read all posts in detail, yet I agree with Jon 1000%. Go for it.

JonD1
(New York)

Posts:771

10/28/2011 8:16 PM
Mari: People who take a stand and do what's right at the very least need support not doubt and having their behavior brought into question. I have served and still serve on the Board for now close to 25 years. The last 8 as President.One of the lessons I have learned many people have suggestions and complaints but little time, effort or motivation to contribute. I have no respect at all for those types. We had a woman on our property who had a dog that took a bite out of a neighbor. The dog's tooth went right through this woman's hand. As this was an animal control issue as you I asked the town to step in and handle this. As you they brought in the town attorney to push forward with how to handle this dog.(not cost to the property) The dog's owner lied that her dog had never bitten anyone else. I did some "research" made some calls and found out the dog had bitten someone else as a matter of fact the dog bit a police officer. Quite a shock when the officer appeared in court on the next court date. As a result the owner was restricted as to where the dog could be walked and not allowed to come in contact with other residents. Like you if someone did not push the issue nothing would have gotten done. So in the end you do what needs to be done because it is the right thing to do. Way to many people simply don't get that. I have learned you do what needs to be done, when it needs to be done whether you want to or not. And as far as those lazy, spineless folks unwilling to move weel ignore them you shouldn't need or desire their approval or support. As long as who you see in the mirror each morning approves of your actions that is all you really need. Good luck and let us know how this turns out for you. I love a happy ending and hopefulloy you will have one on Monday.

SS9
(Texas)

Posts:4

10/28/2011 11:49 PM
MariB, what exactly are the HOA rules regarding home businesses? What does it say about response to violations? Your HOA did send a complaining letter. That may be all they can do. There may not be provisions for legal action. The HOA may not have the funds to hire an attorney. Also, it appears that the matter is being handled by your county attorney as a county code violation. This is not a lawsuit (as the HOA would have to undertake), but a civil trial. You are not going to court against this neighbor. The County is doing so. I understand your feeling that this is "your" case. It would be good if the HOA would offer some backing. Have other neighbors complained about this particular problem? You might ask the president specifically why they are not doing anything further about your complaint. (Are there provisions in the deed restrictions that limit the HOA's involvement in this matter?) I imagine the county attorney will offer the HOA's letter to the neighbor in court. Probably it will be settled out of court with the neighbor paying a fine and stopping the business practice. Good luck.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:2207

10/29/2011 2:23 AM
I agree with you SS9...Everyone with half a brain should know that none of us posters are lawyers or pretend to be. We give advice directly from our own experiences. Which may or may not fit your issue but should give direction or another thought process to follow to resolve your issue. Basically, the HOA doesn't have to participate in this disagreement nor get blamed for their lack of participation. This is out of their hands once the City took it over. The poster is just the witness and only one willing to volunteer in the case. If they happen to be in a HOA, so be it. I've seen similar cases in the past. However, the person didn't go to the court but to the city council instead. The Jury trial is an OPTION available which the violator chose to do. It varies in each city or state. Ours does it by city council for violations. The outcome of this case could be: 1. Violator cleared of all charges and keeps their work vehicle out on the road. 2. The court/zoning department is able to place fines on the violator. If the violator doesn't pay those fines, they may go to jail. 3. They have to pay stiff fines and/or lose their business license, and/or move their business. Any which way it ends...It is STILL NOT your case nor the HOA's resposibility to represent...

Former HOA President

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3801

10/29/2011 3:55 AM
Posted By MariB on 10/28/2011 5:47 AM Ok again, the zoning office and the county attorney state that it would be beneficial to THE case that a rep. from the HOA appear in court. They too can state that they sent letters to this guy that went ignored, they saw the house and pics also, they received letters from other neighbors anonymously about the nuisance of the traffic, etc from this guy having his business from home. If the HOA's Board doesn't want to participate and if the zoning board believes the case will be better with their participation, the Zoning Board can ask the court to subpoena the Board. If the zoning Board doesn't want to subpoena the Association, then they must be willing to go with what they have. It's not your responsibility to get the Board to the courtroom.

LarryB13
(Arizona)

Posts:425

10/29/2011 7:02 AM
Mari: The outcome of the case depends upon the quality of the evidence, not its quantity. The County Attorney's evidence is your testimony, your photographs, your videos, and the zoning inspector's testimony. That's all the County Attorney needs and that's all good quality evidence. The worst thing that could happen would be to bring in someone from your BOD to testify, "I didn't see nuthin." The County Attorney has a limited budget and he is not going to waste his resources pursuing a case that he may not win. Most likely the case is being handled by a deputy county attorney, whose career opportunities are based more than anything else on the percentage of cases he wins. If he thought he could not win this one he would drop it like a rock.

MariB
(South Carolina)

Posts:33

10/29/2011 7:02 AM
Tim, the board (HOA president) did receive a summons just as I did. She called the county attorney telling him she had a vacation planned for that time and can not make it. He asked if she could get us someone to stand in for her that is on the board. She says that this one is looking after a sick parent, this one has a doctor's appt, blah blah blah. She and I have been talking and communication this whole process and she knows how aggravating and frustrating this had been to deal with. I'm the one having to supply all evidence. I have to face this guy in court. I have to drive 60 miles round trip to appear in court, etc. Sure the court can subpoena someone, but like you say perhaps they don't think it's mandatory to have them appear to win but that it would help the case. They attempted. To me, knowing that the HOA knew what I've gone through and knowing that there is finally an end to resolving this, they could at least take some time off for this cause. It's not just my neighborhood but our neighborhood. When the jurors/judge see that the HOA rep came in support of this issue, I think it could only have a positive effect on the case. They don't have to come, but it would be nice to have their support. If they choose not to take the time, then again I'm disappointed. Melissa, I'm not sure why it matters who's case it is. It doesn't matter to me one bit. I just want it to stop.

MelissaP1
(Alabama)

Posts:2207

10/29/2011 7:26 AM
No need to fight with your HOA because they can't show up. Yes, life happens and it's probably true about their excuses. Why wouldn't they be? I had to appear in court for my HOA and I wasn't even a member!!! I had sold my house and wasn't even a board member! The current President didn't want to go and neither did the others. They had lied for years that I had "stolen/kept" records of the HOA. However, the records were always in their possession. Matter of fact the records that were needed for this court case were in a plastic folder labelled with specially for this situation. I had put them there for future reference. So they were VERY red-faced when the truth came out that no records were ever stolen and were actually very well organized....I think that is the reason they didn't want to appear in court. They couldn't lie about not having those records...Which they did turnover to the court. I just had to testify those records were indeed the records of the HOA. I was forced to take off work in the middle of the day. A complete inconvenience to my company and myself. I had to take my vacation time to do it. Plus drive all the way downtown and pay for parking. I also had about 2 days notice to appear in court. No one talked to me prior to taking the stand and didn't know anyone in the courtroom. Plus I had to recall a single phone conversation from 3 years prior. So I can indeed understand your frustration and anger. However, I got the job done and put it all to rest. It only takes 1 person to change the world....Let that one person be you if no one else does it...

Former HOA President

MariB
(South Carolina)

Posts:33

10/29/2011 7:45 AM
Putting all legalities aside... I have been working on this for quite a while. I've been taking pics, calling this person, calling that person, etc. So many times I've been tempted to just say forget it and give up. It hadn't been easy but rather stressful to say the least. You can't just make a phone call and it stops. The process takes time. Throughout this whole ordeal I have been dealing with the HOA in calling them to keep them up to date on what's going on. They asked to be kept updated so out of a courtesy I do since I would think they would take an interest in happenings in the neighborhood. HOA pres. and I have communicated via e-mail and phone many a time. She has come to my house. Then when I finally get the court date, I would think they would want to go just to show support. Even if they know they legally don't need to be there, it is still our neighborhood. If a neighbor tells them it would mean a lot to them and be positive for the case, then at least take some time out and help in this situation or try to get another board member. Show some support especially since nothing much else was done from the HOA to help end this. Heck I even offered to drive my car if they wanted a ride. Perhaps my expectations are too high but that's how I personally feel. Others may feel differently but that's ok.

MariB
(South Carolina)

Posts:33

10/29/2011 7:49 AM
I'll post back on Monday to let y'all know the outcome. Thanks again for the responses and support.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:2491

10/29/2011 10:37 AM
Mari: I agree with Jon and your supporters, good for you and good luck. I would say SHAME on your HOA for not backing you or at least offering support. They are supposed to look out for the association as a whole and this type of stuff has no business in a neighborhood. Regardless of whether the documents allow them to take action they should have had a more supportive role. Honestly, do we think people are always telling the truth 100% of the time when they try to get our of going to court or jury duty? Heck no, I don't buy for a minute that all the HOA board members have valid excuses. Yes it is an inconvenience in life but it is their duty to do this...

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