Mailing of invoices

Our MC is instituting a new coupon mailing program. They say you can opt out of this which is what I did with the exception that I want to continue getting my invoices mailed as I pay the monthly dues via my bank checking account pay bills. They told me that if I opted out of the coupon mailers that I would not receive my monthly invoice which would show what I paid and the billing for the next month.

I responded to their email that I would continue with my bank checking account pay bills, but that I'm entitled to a monthly invoice.

Now, some people may disagree with this, and I understand the MC trying to cut down on mailing expenses, however, even though I send my checks to them via my bank bill well before the due date that the invoice verifies that they got my payment.

I don't trust anyone in my HOA as a result of a board president who was paying himself for doing some landscaping for several years which cost us well over $15,000. I wanted to go after him at the time but one of the board members who is currently serving on the board didn't want to do it and she urged the members present it would cause a lot of problems and last for a long time. Our CC&R's did not permit the board president to pay himself under any circumstances. Well, the president got away with it and he moved out years ago. The last board president committed felony acts against a minor, and I think he killed himself. We've had many board presidents, and all of them have moved out.

I don't trust the MC either. Wnen it comes to money, I want a record of it, and I certainly want to know if my bank check was received. I believe that I'm entitled to a monthly snail mail invoice.

Does anyone have anything to offer whether or not the MC can withhold sending me an invoice for a monthly fee expenditure? Or, do I
have to file a complaint with the State of California? Or, file a complaint with the board and go through the entire procedures?

Whenever I have work done on my car, I get an invoice. Whenever I shop retail or on the internet, I get an invoice. It's my money and I think I merit an invoice from the MC.

Wouldn't your bank statements reflect the money has been paid? Why the need for a receipt from the MC then? I agree with Tim, if you want the statement then you pay for that statement to be mailed to you. Many banks now charge money for paper copies of statements. My bank charge $3 for a copy. So I wouldn't find it out of line for your HOA to bill you for this expense.

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's members FOR it's members. Don't you think you would encourage your HOA to save money or to charge someone like you who wants a special statement? I know I would. It's NOT free to mail, make copies, or provide the labor to send out these statements.

Another suggestion is to ask if the particular accounting software that the MC uses has the capability of e-mailing invoices. That way the HOA saves money on mailing and you get your monthly invoice.

I think there's likely some risk that the PM will automatically say "no the software can't do that" just to get the issue off his/her desk, but it's almost a certainty that the software will generate printed invoices. If it can do that, then they should be able to print to an Adobe Acrobat file which could subsequently be emailed to you.

A little more work, but I suspect it's certainly possible.

Thank you everyone for your responses. I see that they are quite varied.

Our MC is 35 miles away from us. So, I don't think I would drive that far to pick up
an invoice.

Now, when my bank processes a pay bill, they mail them a check,(not an electronic transfer)
so I make sure that there is a 5-day lead time before the 1st of the month to pay the monthly fee.

Now, it's true that my bank statement says the monthly fee was paid, however, what if
the check went astray. The MC says they will only contact you if you didn't pay by the
10th of the month at which time they will levy a late penalty fee. They've done this to
other members who were late.

Or, what if the check was stolen and cashed. In this case, my bank statement would still show that
it was paid, however, my bank only shows that it was paid, and there is no way that
I could determine to whom it was paid, and I would have to call the bank on this matter.

The solution I like best is for them to send me an email, however, they've stated that they
will not send an email. This puzzles me because I buy on the Internet, and as far as I know,
there is no problem with this violating any state law. I don't know whether or not they
have the software, but it baffles me that they would not have such a software program because they
manage quite a few HOA's. Ours is only 50+ members. We've only had this MC less than two years.

Now, I know that some will take exception to my insistence on an invoice, and they have the right to
have their opinions. However, I really would like to know if the MC has a right to deny me an
invoice under any HOA state law or even CC&R's or under some ruling that Board might pass to
add as a matter of protocol to the HOA.

This latest mailing of coupon books by the MC is a nothing more than their way of showing that
they will be asking for an increase in the monthly fee. So, they will show that they are
attempting to save our HOA money, but I know what to expect within the next few months.

I'm still miffed that a few board members refused to take the action I wanted when a former
president absconded with over $15,000 of our money. That would pay for quite a few years of
stamps. I want a board member to send me a letter explaining why I should not be entitled
to a measly monthly statement. The $15k is only one of many situations that our board has
messed up costing us money. I've not attended meetings for several years, and when my other
half retires in a few years, we're outta here. The last two meetings were postponed because
they could not get a quorum. Such is life in a dysfunctional HOA.

This tells me that the issue is not important enough to you. You would like them to mail the statement to you but your not willing to drive by and pick one up. If it was important enough, I think that you would be willing to drive over there.


Well, what would happen if the invoice went astray? Would you pay the amount due or would you just wait until the following month for an invoice?

If your truly concerned, contact the Association on the 5th of the month and ask if they received it. This will allow you time to track down any issues.


That would be a typical policy Associations have. Things do happen. If you have a history of paying on time, most companies take that into consideration.


Well wouldn't this be the same process you would have to do for a stolen check written to any other company you use bill pay for?

Heck, per your posting, the Association would inform you of non-payment 10 days after the payment was due. Most other companies would wait until the next billing cycle. Sounds like your Associations policy is better (at least for this point of your argument).


It takes time to do this if they don't have an automated system to do it for them.

Perhaps you can submit your name and be elected to the Board and then solicit bids for a new management company who will provide this service.


Well, I don't know of any law that requires you to be given an invoice.

An Association must comply with State laws and the governing documents. When you read governing documents, typically the assessments are considered annual. Associations usually allow monthly payments from members to meet this obligation. However, the Association is only required to inform the membership of the annual assessment amount.

Perhaps you would prefer your Association bill you annually for your obligation vs. extending a courtesy and allow you to make monthly payments.


The amount of any assessment is set by the Board, not the management company. Typically the Assessment is based on the operating expenses of the Association, the amount sent to the reserves and any amount the board deems is appropriate for a contingency fund.

If your worried about increased assessments, perhaps you will volunteer your time to the Association so operating costs are minimized. If your really concerned over possible increased costs, it might be best if you submit your name to the nominating committee to serve on the Board. As a board member you would have a part in the actual decision of setting the amount of assessments. This way you could keep them at the current level or lower them if you think they are too high.


Yep, I'd be miffed also. I would also demand that criminal charges be brought if the situation warranted.

Of course the former president probably was able to do this because of membership apathy. Typically, when the membership is involved and watching, these things don't usually happen.


Then ask them.
I suspect the answer will be similar to the ones posted here - an effort to save expenses. They might just say that you are not entitled because there is nothing in the governing documents or State or Federal laws that say you are entitled to a monthly statement. Of course, that would be rude and untactful. Therefore, you should expect that they will just say it's an effort to save money.


Gee, you admitted that you haven't attended meetings for several years. You complain because the last two meetings were postponed for lack of a quorum.

Boards are only as good as the membership is. If the membership isn't willing to serve or participate, then the Association is ran by those who are willing to serve. Hopefully they are the best ones to serve. However, if they aren't - you might not like how the Association is ran.

Hopefully the members who are willing to serve will do a good job. Perhaps you or others could have done better. However, if you won't even attend meetings to see what is going on, you can only hope that the boards actions won't impact your property values when you try to sell.

As Melissa said, You probably won't like my advice. However, I hope it helps.

Tim

Charles, with all due respect accounting software such as Quickbooks Online allows you to email statements and invoices at no cost to either party. I am sure you solution works, but there are also other options.

Thank you once again for your responses and concerns. I wish I could tell you a great deal more about this HOA, but we've decided long ago that this will be our one and only HOA that we will ever join.

Over a year ago, I was a board member. One day as I'm entering the gate, I noticed a small boy dangling from the upper branches of a tree which is in front of the member's property. No parent or guardian was present. I stopped my car on the street, and I called to the small boy to come down as he would hurt himself if he fell to the concrete sidewalk. He came down, I asked him where his parents were, and he pointed to the outside meaning they were not there. I told him that I knew his relative who owned the property, and I asked him to fetch him. The member came out and I told him that it was not right to allow him to be outside with no parental authority present. He thanked me and that was the end of it, so I thought.

The next day, I'm coming from the bank with the president of the board, and as we entered the gate, we stopped as a truck had damaged the gate. While there, the member whose kid was dangling from the tree came over to me in a very threatening way, and with a finger waved in my face told me that the next time, I should come immediately to him, and not to "yell at the boy because he was crying." Well, first of all, I never yelled at the boy, and he was not crying when he came down, and he was not crying when he went to get his relative. In any case, I responded that I would again stop and do the same thing if I saw anyone dangling from the tree, and he should know that the frontage is part of the commons area. This relative told me the next time, he would "kick my ass." Well, I was not afraid of him and he persisted in screaming at me as he as going to "kick my ass." Each time, I turned away from him, and he was so angry that another neighbor had to come to tell him to stop and to calm down. I knew this member, and I told him I was not going to fight him because he has a heart problem, and that it was foolish for him to accost me the way he did.

In any case, I had enough witnesses, and I reported the incidence to the police. I went down to the sheriff's office and I got a restraining order on him including taking away his collection of firearms. In court, he came with his wife, and an attorney, and the judge told him to keep his youngster off the tree. I told the judge that I was not going to fight him because he has a heart condition. Further, I told him that he needed to see a psychiatrist for his anger. I did not yell at the boy. I'm a retired school teacher and not one colleague of mine nor any principal of mine could ever say that I used yelling or screaming in any of my classes. The judge asked if we wanted to still be on a friendship basis, and I said "NO." I was doing my job as a board member and it was my duty to protect the property and as a school teacher, we were held accountable to stop fights and to stop danger, if at all possible. The judge understood that I did the right thing.

Besides the above, I asked the president of the board to also take action, but because he lived next door to him, he didn't want to do it. I told him, it was an obligation of the board to protect me from being threatened by a member. I said it was wrong, and so I informed him that if anything were to happen between me and that member where I or my wife could be hurt, that the HOA could be held accountable in a legal suit. Well, this board member became angry with me, and so he engineered to kick me off the board. So, since then, I've never attended another session. BTW, this is the same president of the board who was caught as a pediphile with 7 felony accounts against him, and to this day, I don't know if he really committed suicide or the cops killed him. In any case, he is dead, that is certain. His home was raided by the sheriff's office, SWAT team, highway patrol, local police, and undercover cops. They had to use a jackhammer in his garage to look for incriminating evidence. But, it was all for naught, he's dead. No trial was ever held.

As a followup to the court case, I recounted the details of what went transpired, and I found evidence that the member perjured himself in the written evidence he submitted. I wrote back to the court, and I clearly showed them details of outright lies which did not conform to the major disposition from a witness. I got a letter back, and the court advised me that I could rehear the case if I wanted to do so. Well, I thought about, and I decided not to do so. Several months later, this member had again been hospitalized for his heart condition. The poor guy had to use a cane and an aid to walk down the street. I seldom see him anymore.

If I had fought this person on the street that day, I knew that one blow from me would probably do great harm, and he's much bigger than myself. But I also know, that if he were to die that his wife could come after me in a legal suit on the basis that I knew of his heart condition. As a board member, I would never engage in any fight, but only to protect myself, if I had to do so.

Well, this is just one incident of why we will never join another HOA. And to think, I've not written about how I was a virtually a one-man force to get rid of a gang that bought a home here, and I had to write letters in behalf of neighbors who came to me for help with this gang. I went to court, the gang members were locked up in jail, and even when they lived here, several were already on probation. What's worse is that I had to plead with one member, in particular, because he came to my home asking for help because he lived next door to them. He and another neighbor didn't want to get involved. All were chicken to do anything. Sure, they threatened me with all their gang members, but I called the cops on them. The home was put on the market, and before the president of the board killed himself, he bought it, and now he left his mother with an upside down mortgage. She's having to sell her own home just to make ends meet.

Such is life in a dysfunctional HOA. Almost unbelievable nonsense that has gone on here for years. I could write a book on this, but I just want my wife to retire, and we're scouting for homes in other states, but no mas for an HOA.

As for the invoice, I really don't care that much about it. I would hope that an email would be sufficient, because that would not really not cost anything. But this MC, they're going to make out like bandits because soon, they will want a raise. The previous MC didn't wait two years before they wanted a raise.