Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!
Thursday, November 15, 2018
Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!


SBCA: Free education for HOAs and condos on satellite placement issues.
(National Trade Organization)
Helping HOAs, condos and property managers with satellite placement issues since 1986.
Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.
Subject: streetlight rental
Prev Next
Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).
Author Messages
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 12:31 PM  
Board going broke because of paying high streetlight rental in Florida. HOA is in city, Was not notified about this on Homeowners takeover from builder. Electric Conpany says this goes on forever Has anyone had this problem? Any solution?
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


07/27/2011 12:43 PM  

Shannon,

Your HOA is renting street lights from FPL? Is there a contract? How many lights are being rented?
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 1:12 PM  
There are 14 streetlights @ a monthly cost of $306.00 in Florida from Progress Energy. Original developer installed and builder did not turn on until 10/27/06,upon leaving.Did Not tell Hoa of arrangement.Can cut off lights to some and not be charged. If we want removed they will abandon wiring. Need light,dark area. In City. Bill goes on forever. Streetlights new are approx.$1200.each new plus installation. Did city issue permits? Did county issue permits? Something in Florida 720 HOA Statues about fair and reasonable contracts.We have no contract, just rental.
PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/27/2011 1:14 PM  
Shannon,

Are you implying that you own the street but renting (leasing) street lights? If true, I think there must be a written ‘street lighting agreement’ between FPL and the Association and that agreement must be recorded in your county official records in order to be valid.
Who was paying for the street light rental while the developer was in charge? You may need to consult an attorney.
BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:2535


07/27/2011 1:16 PM  
How much is the streetlight rental? I can't imagine it being a budget breaker.

You have to pay SOMETHING for streetlights. The power company isn't going to give you the electricity to run them for free, and somebody has to replace the bulbs when they burn out. Normally, it's the electric company you call when that happens.

Our streetlights cost less than $1,000 per year (total), or about 0.4% of our annual budget; less than $1 per month per homeowner.
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 1:25 PM  
Just posted Rental fees of $306.00 plus tax for rental on 14 poles. Electric is only $45.00 per month. 1/3 of homes in foreclosure. Fees not coming in because of economy. This is a bugdet breaker.
BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:2535


07/27/2011 1:25 PM  
Shannon,

$306 per month for 14 streetlights works out to just under $22 per month per streetlight. If I remember correctly, our cost is on the order of $12-$14 per streetlight per month.
DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:5671


07/27/2011 1:26 PM  

Shannon,

Where are you located. The Progress Energy name is headquartered in Raleigh N.Carolina. I would find out about the contract and if you can opt out of it. Find out if you can purchase the light poles . There are only 14 of them so they might put you on a payment plan that would end up much less than a monthly rental. Is all of your electric from PE?
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 1:29 PM  
REntal, not lease. Progress Energy. No current written Agreement. Developer did not turn on until 10/27/06 upon exiting. Can not afford light rental, never mind attny.
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/27/2011 1:58 PM  
If there is no written rental agreement, then they can't force you to pay UNLESS it is a city requirement. BUT before you tell them to come get their lights, I would check with your local Zoning Board.

Out of curiosity, just what do you want? The lights gone, plunging the community into darkness and inviting crime. To purchase the lights? I did see on the news feed about a year age where a HOA was replacing their wired street lights with lights that had a combination of solar panels and a wind turbine at only (I think) around $25,000.00 each.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/27/2011 1:59 PM  
I understand your situation much better now. It is not easy. You can either try to renegotiate the rental agreement or find an alternative solution. Perhaps, other options may be available but I am not aware of any, am sorry to say.
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 2:16 PM  
It would be nice to redo the reantal agreement where they were paid for at some date. We have already paid over $18,000, but after several e mails and talking to lighting solutiuons for progress there seems to be no solution.Can anyone tell me how to get the attention of corporate Progress Energy where this may be worked out, as Florida calls and letters all get the same results.
PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/27/2011 2:54 PM  
Yes, there are ways to get the upper management attention but you would need a coherent story and also know exactly what you are asking for. Would a rental reduction of $XX per month be acceptable to you? Or, do you want a lease-to-purchase option?
You still need to answer a question whether the street(s) in question is private and what the rental agreement states (or stated).
You write: 'No current written Agreement. ' If there is no rental agreement how can it be perpetual? Was there one before? As Glen sated ‘if there is no rental agreement they cannot force you to pay unless…’. I assume you are on the Board and trying to save the association from a complete darkness but there are just too many unanswered questions.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3105


07/27/2011 4:30 PM  
Turn the street lights off.
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 4:42 PM  
GUESS I WILL GO DOWNTOWN TO COUNTY AND CITY TO SEE WHAT i CAN FIND OUT. PERMITS, AGREEMENTS, ETC. The board here was turned over to four individuals who knew nothing about management or even yearly meetings with a management association paying bills. They all quit except one, who is completely in the dark, after 6 years.We reformed the board with elections in June and it has been a pain trying to find out information.I was on another board for 12 years which ran smoothly,before moving here.Lease w/ purchase would be best.
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/27/2011 4:44 PM  
Thanks, would like to, but in a bad crime area. Will have to cut off some to paa bills
PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/27/2011 5:04 PM  
Turn the street lights off. [SteveM9)

Shannon,

Whatever you do please do NOT listen to the advice above. It is totally off the wall and the consequences could be .. well what else can I say?
GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:5491


07/27/2011 7:28 PM  
You want their attention file a complaint with the Florida Public Service Commission, you know the people who regulate utilities and vote on their rate increase requests. Trust me, utilities do not want unresolved complaints in their file when it is rate increase time.

BUT before you do, your Board will need to decide exactly what it wants and you will need the information others have asked for and the authority of your fellow Board members to act, least they post here about how to reign in a rogue Board Member.

Studies show that 5 out of 4 people have problems with fractions
PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/28/2011 6:02 AM  
GUESS I WILL GO DOWNTOWN TO COUNTY AND CITY TO SEE WHAT i CAN FIND OUT. PERMITS, AGREEMENTS, ETC.[Shannon]

Shannon,

Or you can have someone to show you how to search the county public records. All association documents, including agreements, subdivision plat, easements, etc. should be right there The Articles -if you need them-could be filed only with the secretary of state.

PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/28/2011 6:07 AM  
Street lights are liability and security issues. I would, most likely, check with the insurance company before turning any lights off.
SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:3105


07/28/2011 5:00 PM  
I've lived in many neighborhoods where there was no streetlights. Homes had lights outside the door, or small decorative light posts on the lawn. Provides a nice amount of light, but at the owners expense.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1320


07/28/2011 6:23 PM  

We rent lighting from Progress Energy and, since LED's weren't offered by Progress 5 years ago, I'm bettng you have the orangish, sodium vapor lights on a pole.

I'll also bet you that you're not longer restricted by any minimum mandated lease terms since you've met them over the past few years and can have them removed or partially removed, leaving some security lighting.

Why not call Progress Energy and don't fret at all. They have officials who will come to your HOA property (as opposed to the phone operator for us residential customers) and, with that person in your presence, lay out your ability to pay and what can be done maximize lighting at minimum monthly cost and lease obligation. After all, the lease is pointless if you can't pay it and they're not gonna sue over 14 lights. They might as well work w/ you as the Times are hard. I signed a Progress Energy Commercial Lighting contract yesterday, so I've seen the process up close.

NOTE: In NC, Progress offers LED street lighting for about $14-$16 per month roughly BUT they want a 10-year commitment for installing the expensive lighting. Don't get talked into that in exchange of "cheaper" lighting.

Sodium vapor lighting prices have actually dropped on a per-month basis here. Also, a lighting person may work a plan to save you on the number of lights that are installed and STILL protect your property.
ShannonC1
(Florida)

Posts:8


07/29/2011 7:24 AM  
We are in the dark about everything. There is no lease, they say only forever rental at business lighying solutions office in Florida,Lights have been on since 10/27/06. Do you ahve address and phone for Progress in NC Have to go find original records at county/city as offices are evasive.
BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:2535


07/29/2011 7:28 AM  
Posted By ShannonC1 on 07/29/2011 7:24 AM
We are in the dark about everything. There is no lease, they say only forever rental at business lighying solutions office in Florida,Lights have been on since 10/27/06. Do you ahve address and phone for Progress in NC Have to go find original records at county/city as offices are evasive.

Aren't public utilites regulated in your state? If so, then the state department having juristiction for public utilities in your state should have name and address information.
KellyM3
(North Carolina)

Posts:1320


07/29/2011 8:26 AM  

1.888.326.3344 - That's Progress Energy's toll free number for Commercial, Industrial and Government lighting. You'll fall under "commercial lighting."

There's no need to sweat public utility regulatory filings or anything else. Your neighborhood is financially in a bad shape and you cannot afford the street lighting lease in its current form, regardless of situation.

Progress Energy leases only contain, in many cases, a minimum lease term. After meeting that standard, it's simply a month-to-month lease you pay as you go along the calendar. There's no renewal. Pay as you go. That's why it appears to be "forever."

PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958


07/29/2011 8:40 AM  
Just in the event you are asked to deal with 'Progress Energy of Florida' in St. Pete here is their web site.


https://www.progress-energy.com/florida/home/index.page
VenugopalS
(Florida)

Posts:3


07/05/2018 4:15 AM  
Did you manage to get any information from county. We are facing the same issue.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


07/05/2018 6:17 AM  
Why isn’t the OP doing their own basic research?

Asking for phone numbers. Doesn’t have copy of contract? Discussion with original developer, if they are still around?
DavidW5
(North Carolina)

Posts:563


07/05/2018 6:37 AM  
Are these "standard" street lights or are they "decorative" street lights? In our NC community the standard street lights along all the public roads were installed and are maintained through the county via our property taxes. However, our developer installed decorative street lights around our entrances (to enhance sales ?)and we pay a monthly fixed fee to the electric utility for those that covers electric costs and any maintenance.

If you are located on public streets and the street lights are standard, I would expect those to be provided via your local government through your property tax.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1263


07/05/2018 7:15 AM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 07/05/2018 6:17 AM
Why isn’t the OP doing their own basic research?

Asking for phone numbers. Doesn’t have copy of contract? Discussion with original developer, if they are still around?


My guess is that you won't hear from the OP since this is a 7 year old thread.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
DouglasK1
(Florida)

Posts:1263


07/05/2018 7:19 AM  
Posted By DavidW5 on 07/05/2018 6:37 AM
Are these "standard" street lights or are they "decorative" street lights? In our NC community the standard street lights along all the public roads were installed and are maintained through the county via our property taxes. However, our developer installed decorative street lights around our entrances (to enhance sales ?)and we pay a monthly fixed fee to the electric utility for those that covers electric costs and any maintenance.

If you are located on public streets and the street lights are standard, I would expect those to be provided via your local government through your property tax.


I can't speak for all of Florida, but in our county gated communities have private streets and storm drainage infrastructure. This also includes paying for street lights. Like other posters above we also rent our lights from the power company, it is our second largest monthly expense.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
SheliaH
(Indiana)

Posts:2302


07/05/2018 9:22 AM  
Um, this was an old post for 2011 - you might want to start a new topic with your questions so you'll get updated information and people won't have to wade through a ton of old information (things may have changed in 6 years).

A reminder to all - if you find a topic that interests you from the search, please note the date of the original post. Things can change quickly in HOA land and it's best to at least look at stuff from 2018 or set up your own topic.
GeorgeS21
(Florida)

Posts:750


07/05/2018 6:22 PM  
Dammit - caught, again ...

Let’s all promise to look at the date of the OP prior to responding!!
JanetB2
(Colorado)

Posts:4160


07/06/2018 10:38 PM  
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 07/05/2018 6:22 PM
Dammit - caught, again ...

Let’s all promise to look at the date of the OP prior to responding!!


LOL ... While we all try to do that ... some always slip through. That’s OK ... while we all try hard ... nobody is perfect.

Please login to post a reply (click Member Login on the menu).



Get 2 months of free community web site hosting from Community123.com!



News Articles Provided by: Community Associations Network
News, articles and blogs about condos/HOA's

Only members have access to all features.
Click here to join HOATalk for Free! Members click here to login and access all features.







General Legal Notice:  The content of forum messages are from the posting member and have not been reviewed nor endorsed by HOATalk.com.  Messages posted by HOATalk or other members are for informational purposes only, are not legal or professional advice and do not constitute an attorney-client relationship.  Readers should not act upon this information without seeking professional counsel.  HOATalk is not a licensed attorney, CPA, tax advisor, financial advisor or any other licensed professional.  HOATalk accepts ads from sponsors but does not verify sponsor qualifications nor endorse/guarantee any sponsor's product or service.
HindmanSanchez Legal Notice:  (For messages posted by HindmanSanchez) This message has been prepared by HindmanSanchez for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Members of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send us confidential information unless you speak with one of our attorneys and get authorization to send that information to us. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in our firm. Our attorneys are licensed to practice law in the state of Colorado only.

Legal Notice For Messages Posted by Sponsoring Attorneys: This message has been prepared by the sponsoring attorney for informational purposes only and does not constitute legal advice. This information is not intended to create, and receipt of it does not constitute an attorney-client relationship. Readers of HOATalk.com should not act on this information without seeking professional counsel. Please do not send any sponsoring attorney confidential information unless you speak with the sponsoring attorney or an attorney from the sponsoring attorney’s firm and get authorization to send that information to them. If you wish to initiate possible representation, please contact an attorney in the firm of the sponsoring attorney. Sponsoring attorneys that post messages here are licensed to practice law in a specific state or states as indicated in their message signature or sponsor’s profile page. (NOTE: A ‘sponsoring attorney’ is an attorney that is a HOATalk.com official sponsor and is identified as such in the posted message or on our sponsor page.)

Copyright HOA Talk.com, A Service of Community123 LLC ( Homeowners Association Discussions )   Terms Of Use  Privacy Statement