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FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/17/2011 11:56 AM
I'm new here as I am to the position of treasurer for our relatively small HOA. Since I am well versed using Filemaker Pro for database solutions, I have created one for my volunteer position to do member communication and invoicing. I have stayed thus far with Quicken for the checking account, although I have started to switch that also to my Filemaker solution. I found brief discussions back in 2006 and 2007 about Filemaker and do-it-yourself databases. To help with my challenge, I would appreciate any comments and especially suggestions as to the missing capabilities some of you have found, or not found, in your present software or method of conducting business for your HOA. I realize there are a number of software packages for sale out there, but I believe we can keep it simple for smaller organizations and customize it to our specific needs. Any help or ideas will be appreciated. Frank

SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:1529

07/17/2011 2:00 PM
Soo........ 1. Volunteer for the HOA. 2. Switch everything over to filemaker, a program not many people know how to use. 3. Stop volunteering 4. Database problems pop up that no one knows how to fix 5. Tell the HOA you are available for hire $$ to fix the filemaker pro database 6. Profit. Did you ever work for the fed/state government by chance?

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/17/2011 2:21 PM
SteveM9, I'm surprised at your negative response. I feel that when someone is a volunteer for their HOA community, they have and will keep the best interests of their fellow residents and the association in mind. You and I obviously see it differently. Certainly I will and I do, sometimes for a price, build a database solution for an organization or a business, but as a volunteer in my own HOA community I would not consider your scenario even on my worst day. Anyway, my Filemaker solution is for my use as long as I am the treasurer. When another person assumes the position, they will have no reason to use my method, they can do it their way. My design is not being commissioned by our HOA or has it been requested that I do my job differently than those before me. As I said, I am new to this forum. You make me feel like I should not have joined.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:1510

07/17/2011 2:47 PM
Frank, Since you're well versed in Filemaker Pro, you might as well just want to stick with it. I have been using Microsoft Access for over 12 years, and developed several databases for myself and organizations (including a well-known enterprise) with it. Obviously, I've become reasonably good with Access by now. Microsoft Access is a very powerful relational database, with, as I understand it, more bells and whistles than Filemaker Pro. But, the downside is: Only runs on Windows platforms. Very steep learning curve. By the time you start to get moderatly good at it, you might no longer have a need for it. You will need to learn how to program in Visual Basic. You will need to purchase some expensive (and very thick) reference manuals. My understanding is that Access enforces strict referential integrity compared to Filemaker Pro. If you already own a version of Microsoft Office that doesn't include Access, I believe you can buy an Access upgrade for about $100. Since I'm not familiar with Filemaker Pro, I can't make a comparison between the two, but you can find comparisons on the internet. Then, there's Oracle.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:1510

07/17/2011 3:02 PM
Frank, I might add that you can purchase developer tools and a runtime version of Access that allows you to package a database developed in Access as a stand-alone program. An example is a genealogy software program called Legacy. That stand-alone program uses a Microsoft Access database engine. I don't know if Filemaker Pro has anything like that.

PetunkaM
(Florida)

Posts:958

07/17/2011 3:12 PM
Frank, When I did the books for our HOA I chose to set up all records in Microsoft Office for the following reasons: 1. I could easily exchange files with the BOD and the members because 90% of them had compatible software. We are a relatively small HOA. 2. In the event I was absent anyone could take over. 3. Subsequent Treasurer was just handed a disk with a few simple instruction and did not have to start all over again. These may be just a few benefits of using readily available software packages. Sorry, I am not familiar with FileMaker.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3801

07/17/2011 3:58 PM
Frank, The problem with using a program that isn't used by a lot of people is that when you quit serving on the Board, it's possible that future officers won't use the program because they: a) Don't own a copy of the base program b) Don't know how to use the program This actually happened within our Association. The Architectural Committee had spent a lot of time creating a database in Microsoft Access. When they left, people either didn't have the program or didn't know how to use it so they just ignored it. When I was appointed to the committee 5 years later I discovered the program. The committee decided not to try and update it for fear that the same thing could happen in the future. ' My Association uses MSWord and Excel. Other than those two programs, everything is done on paper. Being in charge of the Website, I will convert the documents to pdf format with Adobe Acrobat Pro. I'm actually hoping a free program for converting files to pdf will be available by the time I quit serving so the work will carry on. Tim

AnnJ1
(Florida)

Posts:107

07/17/2011 5:26 PM
Hi Frank, I use MSWord, Publisher, Power Point and Excel for our association and haven't had an issue that I couldn't conquer with the BIG Four! Tim..... I convert all my documents to PDF with Primo PDF http://www.primopdf.com/index.aspx It is a free application and will convert any Microsoft file into a pdf. I've used it on docs of more than 200 pages and it works in 5 seconds or less. It's great for putting stuff on our website, including our newsletters. I've been using it for six years and it works with all recent versions of Windows... including Win 7 64 bit. HTH Ann

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3801

07/17/2011 6:44 PM
Thanks for that information Ann. Tim

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/17/2011 7:29 PM
Thank you for the helpful and informative responses to my initial post about a database solution for our association. I guess I am on the other side of the fence using a Mac and Filemaker instead of Access and other PC software. The thing is ... with Filemaker Pro Advanced, which I use, I can create a database which can do everything I believe I (we) need to do including creating pdf files and exporting to Excel. And, it will run on a Mac or a PC with the Filemaker software in addition to running on either as a runtime solution without the Filemaker software. So, I can do all of this on a PC, but happen to have a Mac. I really want to have a positive relationship with members of this forum, and am very interested in continuing an ongoing dialog about what we all do. A treasurer is responsible to create financial reports and a number of other items. My desire is to create most reports and filled-in forms with the push of a button. As I continue designing my layouts showing related tables, tabbed sections, and printable forms, I would be glad to share details along the way, if anyone is interested. Again, I appreciate your input. Frank

JohnM48
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:81

07/17/2011 9:20 PM
Frank, I'm of the same mind (almost) as you. I'm not a Mac / Filemaker user but I am developing a stand-alone application for our HOA. For the database, my app will use either MySQL or SQLite - both commonly used and well-documented db's. I've written a DB Abstraction Layer for my app which will allow me to swap MySQl - SQLite at will, so that I may delegate some information to our access-controlled website. I understand the comments left by some of the members. I guess I'm a bit jaded being a software developer, but as far as a learning curve is concerned, it's my experience that a well-designed GUI and decent documentation can make a custom solution an easier one to use/learn than an ad hoc MS Office solution. Good luck with yours.

Association President

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/18/2011 5:56 AM
John, Since I was recently elected as our treasurer, I am designing my database as I go. I started with a directory of residents, which is actually our secretary's responsibility, but she is not capable of formulating an updatable printout, and I needed an accurate listing for invoicing. Next came checking and budget organization, some of which is still in Quicken. Then invoicing which is now individualized and sent via email. Then statements of invoice balances. Now that we have 2 units up for sale, resale documents needs to be address. Previous treasurers have not provided complete details to prospective buyers concerning balance sheets, income statements and reserve accounts along with future budgeted expenditures. For me, it's a step-by-step process as needed to do my job. Any input here will be appreciated especially about resales. Frank

SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:1529

07/18/2011 6:01 AM
I'm surprised at your negative response. Hey, I'm from Massachusetts. Thats how everyone is. Hehe. I was just point out the pitfalls of using custom software in an HOA environment in a sarcastic way. Obviously your free to do whatever you want.

HoaC
(Florida)

Posts:95

07/18/2011 6:09 AM
As a relatively large HOA, with close to 2000 homes, We ran into the same problems over and over. We used Access, Office, we had a database made, and each time our BODs changed we had issues. And the fact the information was on a PC, either in some one’s home or in the office, where they could be lost or stolen. We finally went to a ISaaS cloud suite that provides us technical support, is off site for our data in a secure server, data redundantly backed up, and when we change BODs we simply request or change the permissions and the old BODs are out and the new ones are in. It is a simple point and click software. We opted for the A&R side of the software. It does all of our billing, second notices, intent to lien, intent to foreclose automatically. And, it fills out the lien forms and sends to the Attorney's office automatically. I know of two attorneys that are associated with HOAs using the software, and they have said that it cut the cost of the HOAs filing liens from $150 each to $50 each because the attorney's do not have to do any research. The system also uses something they call "Intelligent Data Gathering" and it tells the BODs when a property sells, forecloses, or someone new is moving in to the area so the BODs can send out a welcome package. The homeowners have a website, a forum to voice their opinions in, and can monitor the meeting minutes, treasury reports, and budget online. Along with the owners being able to monitor their accounts themselves and make payments online. What helped increase our income was the fact that when PPL new they could make payments online, the BODs have allowed ppl to make monthly payments using this system. And, since it is in the cloud, the BODs can work from anywhere at anytime. This company is building a module, we are looking into, that allows the BODs to go to any site with their smart phone, take a picture of the CC&R violation and send the owner a notice and a pic time and date stamped of the violation. And this is also stored in the owners file in the database and is accessible by the owner and the BODs online for future references. There are other features this has. I would recommend checking into it. www.....com is the name and site of the software company and the contact # is 352 .......

JohnO6
(Georgia)

Posts:415

07/18/2011 6:17 AM
Let me first acknowledge that the previously identified issue of "custom" versus "stock" software for HOA management continuity is very real. I'm not saying that one is better or worse, just that each has it's advantages and disadvantages that should be considered in the decision. If you have chosen to go the "custom" route by using a Rapid Application Development tool (such as Filemaker Pro - frankly it would be challenging to refer to Access as a "rapid" tool), I would suggest you may want to develop your application for the web environment. Despite the custom nature of the application, at least creating a web-based tool will allow easier continuity of use as Board members and officers change over time. This is the custom equivalent of SAAS applications in "stock" software. I'm not all that familiar with Filemaker Pro, but while it appears to have some web capabilities they don't appear to be all that robust. Although it's only available for the Windows operating system, you may want to take a look at AlphaFive from Alphasoftware. I have no conflict of interest in suggesting that product - I'm just a user of their products (beginner really), but the ability to create both desktop and web applications appears to be really, really good.

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/18/2011 6:53 AM
HoaC (no personal name) Our HOA is very small and does not have need of many of the capabilities of the software application you are recommending, but thanks for its description. After my first year as a volunteer treasurer, I will have a better idea about everything that is needed for this position, and whether or not to actually put my resulting database online for future use. I have had databases online before and for this process the only cost to our association would be from a host company unless I can now host it for free from the new Apple iCloud. Frank

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/18/2011 6:59 AM
JohnO6, I appreciate you thoughts on AlphaFive, but since I regularly use Filemaker Pro Advanced, I will continue with its latest version 11 and all of its new features. Again, I will wade through this first year on the board and add features as they arise. Like many here, we are a small community with all volunteers and no funds for outside management or systems. Frank

JohnM48
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:81

07/18/2011 7:15 AM
Frank, Sounds like you're a bit further along than I, although I have the majority of my database designed. I, too, started with the membership list - ours was poorly maintained with very outdated, missing information. Now we actually know who owns these homes. Next up is the billing / accounts receivable module. Our former PM maintained the worst books I've ever seen (I've owned a tax accounting firm for over 35 years) and it's difficult to know how much is owed by some of our members. There was virtually no billing / collections procedures in place, and that will all be automated now. I understand your problem with the resale certs - ours were not compliant either. They will be part of my software solution although for now I've just created fill-in pdf's, that will ultimately be the basis for the automated reports. My solution is being developed using a combination of php and Adobe AIR. AIR provides the nice front-end GUI and it easily integrates with an online storage solution. I'm using both MySQL and SQLite for the db's to allow for both online and local storage. The online storage will be maintained on our own dedicated servers, fully encrypted and with a robust backup solution. We haven't yet decided to move away from QuickBooks for check writing - it has decent reporting features and works well with our outside accounting firm. It wouldn't upset me to keep these separate but I will insist on a better backup system. The software HoaC refers too sounds interesting - I will definitely take a look.

Association President

HoaC
(Florida)

Posts:95

07/18/2011 8:17 AM
Frank, I heard ....has an offer to a few HOAs. They are selecting HOAs and giving them thier software for free with some stipulations. I do not know all the stipulations, but they have a guarantee, if your HOA does not increase the amount of money you currently have coming in, they will let you use the software free. It is worth a phone call to see what they offer. Just my thought. If it works out for you, then you saved yourself and your association a lot of time and money.

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

07/19/2011 6:50 AM
JohnM48, In addition to the both of us being in Pennsylvania, there does seem to be a number of similarities in our challenges although I have a really good trail of previously kept paperwork to follow. It was just not perfected and automated the way I wanted, but that is coming along very nicely. Our checking and capital reserve accounts remain in Quicken. Since I can now import the check register information from Quicken into my Filemaker solution, I plan to continue using both for the immediate future. Being able to format reports and charts in Filemaker gives me more flexibility and may be more understandable for our members. Thus far, my Filemaker solution handles emailed or printed invoicing, statements, some reports, emails and communication tracking, mailings, document storage, and other items. Several of these capabilities allow me to use Quicken rather than QuickBooks. When I have the time, I'm looking at other possibilities. Frank

JohnM48
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:81

07/19/2011 2:07 PM
Frank, Yeah, I've noted the similarities as well. I only wish I had a better paper trail to work with - we are nearly starting from scratch with all of our records.

Association President

ArnoldG1
(Maryland)

Posts:2

11/21/2011 5:03 PM
Hi Frank, New to the site but I too am considering a Filemaker solution for our HOA. Rather than duplicate your efforts, would you mind sharing any of your creations for us to evaluate? Thanks, Arnie

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

11/21/2011 5:41 PM
Arnie, my Filemaker Pro solution works well for everything I do for our association, although I am still using Quicken for some of the accounting needs of being Treasurer. Invoicing, email communication, resale certificates, and membership roster are easily handled with Filemaker, and now I have scripted a fairly complex section for calculating and preparing our reserve study even though our state does not yet require it. The reserve study really does help us balance long range expenditures with required membership payment amounts. Now, we will have no need in the future to pay for a reserve study. My solution is a work in progress for my personal use and not something which I will share. However, I will provide advice and some Filemaker help for you as you get into structuring yours.

TimB4
(Virginia)

Posts:3801

11/21/2011 5:45 PM
Arnie, The only issue with using a program that not everyone buys or is versed in, is the question if your efforts will be ignored when the next person takes over. We had a person go through and put our Architectural files into a MS Access database. The data base was great. However, the person who took over the Committee after this was done didn't know Access and didn't have the program. Therefore, they basically ignored the file. By the time I was on the committee, the file was so out of date and only I understood Access that we spent a year making hard copy files and chose to stick with that so the issue doesn't repeat itself. Tim

ArnoldG1
(Maryland)

Posts:2

11/21/2011 8:18 PM
Thanks Frank and Tim for your input. We have cartons and file boxes of records that are very manpower intensive to use. As the incoming Architectural Committee Chair, I am hoping to automate our operation as much as possible. For instance, I just completed a comprehensive walk-through of the community and photographed all the properties as a baseline. Now I am cross-referencing the manual record for each property with the photos. (e.g. the property has a deck, is there an Architectural Review/Approval or violation letter on file etc.) Very time intensive. That said, I have digitized most of the records for safekeeping and easier analysis. To help, I am experimenting with a FileMaker database. Click on a property, up pops all the related data in one place. I just do not want to reinvent the wheel if it is not necessary. I am also evaluating some online management providers in an effort to avoid the software incompatibility issues down the road when I leave office. Arnie

JohnO6
(Georgia)

Posts:415

11/22/2011 6:27 AM
Frank, Arnold, Tim, and anyone else interested - Just adding my thoughts to this thread. By the way, any commercial product that I mention - please be assured that I have no connection/conflict of interest, just either use or have evaluated. I believe that one of the true challenges with software solutions to help run/manage community associations - at least from a self-management (as opposed to a property management company) perspective is the ability to (a) collaborate in real-time for efficient processes, and (b)have a system that is "transferable" to individuals who may subsequently be in the various roles (secretary, treasurer, etc) that will actually use the system. As such, web-based Software as a Service (SAAS)solutions are, I think, ideal if they can meet the criteria necessary for security, on-going support, and reasonable ability to integrate with each other if needed. So Frank & Arnold, since Filemaker Pro can develop database applications for the web, I would encourage you to go that route. Of course, you'll have to end up dealing with the hosting & security issues. Too, since it's "home-grown", you'll need to have developed a method of training & support for future users (regardless of whether you develop your product for the web or for use on individual or networked computers). You may want to consider utilizing existing SAAS products - either the more all-inclusive type designed for managing associations (see, for example, www.buildium.com), or perhaps choosing from an ala carte menu for the specific software capabilities you need. Our 103 unit community of attached fee-simple homes, that collects monthly dues and is self-managed has thus far done the latter. What we use currently (or are likely to use shortly) is: A Community Website (to remain anonymous with respect to the commercial sponsor of this forum) for communications and interactions with the residents & owners. QuickBooks Online Edition Plus - for accounting, invoicing, vendor management, etc. A Fujitsu Scanner and a DropBox account (we've gotten by with the free 2+ GB version so far) for paper record storage and instant access by all Board members. We're currently exploring the use of: QuickReserve (free edition at first) for annual management of our reserve study & updating - see www.quickreserves.com PostalMethods for those communications that we absolutely must use USPS for hard copy - see www.postalmethods.com Just thought I'd throw out some opinions and experiences. HTH

FrankM7
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:29

11/22/2011 7:23 AM
Well, John06 (HTH), I appreciate you input and recommendations, however, since we are a smaller association than yours, and we, as management, and myself in particular don't like to pay for outside services including online software when we can accomplish everything we need ourselves, I (we) will stay with using and developing a Filemaker solution. I guess I look at my management commitment as a several-year opportunity to help our association, and if I can do the work successfully for the interim at no cost to my fellow members, than good for me. I understand your reasoning to pay others to provide services, and that works for those of you who don't dabble in creating home-grown applications to handle needed tasks. Filemaker Pro is most capable and can easily export all its data to a number of file types which can be used by other software applications in the future. It can also create runtime solutions which can easily be used by anyone. Thus for the short term and to organize our community better than previously structured, and with the confidence of the other officers, we will stick with our own methods and save the money. And, you must also realize, I enjoy the challenge of matching and sometimes creating better solutions, customized to our needs, than those presently available. For others reading this discussion, John06 (HTH) has helpful recommendations, however, if you are inclined to venture into creating your own solutions, the satisfaction of doing that is just around the corner.

JohnO6
(Georgia)

Posts:415

11/22/2011 7:30 AM
Frank - Thanks for your comments. I completely understand where you're coming from and am not trying to suggest that "my way" is "better" - certainly each situation/community should be handled on an individual basis which suits them best. I also understand the satisfaction portion of "growing your own". I, personally, find AlphaFive to be a more robust Rapid Application Development tool than FileMaker, but once again, each to his own preference. Good luck with your project! BTW (By the way), the HTH from my previous post was for "Hope this helps". Sorry for the abbreviation(s).

SteveM9
(Massachusetts)

Posts:1529

11/22/2011 7:50 AM
The only issue with using a program that not everyone buys or is versed in, is the question if your efforts will be ignored when the next person takes over. Yep. I've seen this done many times over the years in business. If the new person isn't comfortable with technology, you will see them printing everything out, unorganized filing methods, etc. So if it makes your life better, go for it. But from experience, dont expect others after you to use it. It wont happen.

RickA1
(North Carolina)

Posts:1

11/24/2011 7:59 AM
There is a free program I use to create PDF documents. It is called PDF creator. Google it and enjoy.

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