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CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

11/01/2006 7:12 AM
I have always gotten some very good advice from the members of HOATalk. As many of you may know, I have recently been elected to be vice president of our HOA. As a resident and a member,(prior to being a board member) I have been interesting in putting together a list and displaying the names of delinquent homeowners. From many of you I found out that, it would not be in my best interest and I would find myself dealing with a law suit. I did get a suggestion that instead of listing who is delinquent we can list who is in good standings, which is very clear to me now. The suggestion was use in their community and has been successful. The problem I’m having is, that I don’t feel we should call it a “rewards list” or an “awards list” This to me sound as if we( the board) is or has rewarded these homeowners, and we haven’t nor do we intend to award them for fulfilling their obligations by living in an HOA community. I’m very eager to start the first publication in this months newsletter. I would appreciate any of you suggestion to this as well. Thank you as always. Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

11/01/2006 7:28 AM
Charles, I would be opposed to this method because while you are not directly naming the delinquents, you are naming them by ommision. Their neighbors will know and it can create embarassment and animosity. It is really not a good neighborly idea to publicly disclose the financial situation of other members, in my opinion. In Arizona, any information regarding the finances of members may only be discussed in closed session. I don't know the laws in your state, but when you begin disclosing financial information about members in this manner you could open the HOA up to some legal action. My advice would be just quietly go after collecting the money owed by the delinquents in the manner set forth in your CC&R's and the state laws and you'll be on the safe side. What can be done is to show the number of delinquent accounts and a breakdown of how many accounts are overdue 30-60 days, 60-90 days, and so on, and the total amount in each column along with a total delinquent amount. Good luck

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

11/01/2006 7:43 AM
You can generalize and give kudos to those who have paid their assessments and suggest that those who are behind, please contact whomever to make arrangements. You don't have to name names, they know who they are.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

11/01/2006 8:10 AM
Chuck, I recommend you not provide any list related to accounts receivable. The objective should not be to shame or recognize (passive agressive shaming) any owner. The object should be to have everyone pay promptly. We have a very effective means to achieve this- as it states in our ad we have 100% success and have never been to litigation. Our Rules and Regulations on Delinquent Assessments can be reviewed on this board. Set a month late charge which is high enough to "encourage" prompt payments; set a time schedule such as 40, 70, 100, 130 and 160 days (as statute allow); regarding filing a lien the amount should sufficient to "strongly encourage" paying before the filing date; and if these actions still do not get results make them realize before the account goes to legal action that they will encounter thousands of dollars of expenses, wages will be garnished, and ultimately it could lead to forclosure on their property.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

JamesC
(Maryland)

Posts:128

11/01/2006 8:27 AM
Chuck: Tough call! I have been after our board to foreclose on our deliquents but, keep running into opposition from our MC. We have about fifteen homeowners who owe over $13,000 on their assessements. I was told in the past they would publish the deliquent names in the newsletter,but that come to a halt because there were so few and they didn't want to embarass anyone. Now it has gotten out of hand because the homes are going at such high prices the home owners say they will pay their deliquent fees when they sell. In the mean time the dependable homeowners are footing the bills to pay for our community services for these dead beats. We have convinced the other board members (9 of us) and the other property owners,by vote, that beginning this month (Nov)any assessements not paid by the 15th of each month will be assessed a late fee of $20.00 (max in our state) We may not get the assessements now, but when they do sell, the added lates fee will be collected. I have recently asked about just publishing the address of the deliquents, and not the names in our newsletter and we still waiting word from our attorney. This is a very interesting post, and I will follow to see what others have to say on the topic. Jim Jim

JulieS
(Georgia)

Posts:412

11/01/2006 9:17 AM
Chuck, Personally, I would not publish the names of those who have paid or who haven't. Nothing productive or positive will come out of it. It could even back fire on the board by appearing insensitive, etc. Granted, no one likes it when people don't pay their fare share but you could come out looking like the 'bad guy'. Keep going after those who have not paid with payment plans, late fees, fines, liens, etc. We have filed lawsuits and received judgements but cannot do anything else due to the HOA status. Our goal for next year is to change from an HOA to a POA so that we will have more leverage and ability to collect assessments. Also, it has been my experience that those who have not paid for a long period of time and have not acknowledge the situation are not part of the community. They do not know their neighbors, nor do they socialize or participate in community affairs. They either are not interested in the community or already feel 'shunned' by the fact that they are delinquent. My advice: keep working on the collections and let the community know what you are doing to collect. You can use this as a good reason for changing to a POA.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

11/01/2006 12:01 PM
CharlesW1, I think a list singling out owners who happen to be in arrears is a misguided and complete waste of energy. The sign of a good leader is someone that unites the community rather than divide it by bad examples. The most I would say in a newsletter is as follows: Thank you to all those who are current in monthly maintenance dues and are therefore members in good standing. Your dues are what allow the association to operate to the benefit of the entire community. For those who are in arrears we encourage you to become current so you can enjoy the full benefits of your association membership. It is not fair to all those in good standing to finance your share of delinquent operation expenses. To all those members in good standing, there will be an association non-denomiational holiday party held.............. GeraldT1 NNJ

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

11/01/2006 3:39 PM
Chuck, just curious...do your documents state that a member must be in good standing--must stay current on assn. fees to continue to be provided with the actual services the fees pay for? Has any Board experienced withholding these services if a unit owner will not pay their share in monthly fees? PaulM

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

11/01/2006 4:52 PM
if you still want to be passive agressive, you could simply remind everyone that association books/financial records are OPEN to any member for viewing, and provide easy times for such viewing. Then, perhaps, you can educate people as to why they would want to look at the records... secondly, I too am torn regarding this idea: i hate the thieves who steal from paying members/owners, but also agree that naming them publicly could be bad for the overall feel of the HOA (and reverse naming them - by omission- is just a step removed). We publish names of criminals in our papers, we publish names of bad check writers at our stores... But this is more personal, and could cause much animosity... tough call. lastly, i do admit to thinking about all those "My child is an honor roll student" bumper stickers I see... which in light of this thread, really means "My child is smart and on the honor roll. Since you don't have a bumper sticker, Your's must therefore be stupid". lol!

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

11/01/2006 5:09 PM
Thank you all. You all have given me such great advice in the past and continue to give me guidance. Prior to being a board member, this was one of the things I thought would help with collections. Nikki T. had posted this some time ago, and when I read this “I thought excellent! That is exactly what I’ve been looking to do” “Now, we will post the names of the PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENT - THEREFORE IN GOOD STANDING - as a "reward" for the members that take care of their obligations. This "List" has to be available at the beginning of all meetings of members anyway to tally attendance as well as voting eligibility! So why not use this law in your favor. If a delinquent member's name is NOT on the list - - oh well - - it is a "Member in Good Standing List" anyway and they can get their names on the REWARD LIST simply by being current in their dues and any assessments”. Works for us. Nikki T. Now that I am a board member, I just feel it wouldn’t be right of me as a board member and that has the ability to view the financials of the other members to notify the community of delinquencies. I can review the financial. I see who is delinquent and for how long they have been in arrears. I can see that if there has been a lien filed or not. We are now looking to raise the assessments and to request for a Special assessment on top of it all. We have a tremendous amount of work needed to be done to our pool and tennis court. The only people that we can count on are the people the members that do usually pay the assessments. The members that are delinquent in their assessments don’t have privileges to any of the amenities . I will be meeting with the president and the Treasure tomorrow. I have already mention to them I don’t think it is a good idea to have such list. Sorry for the long post. You have all given me something to think about, for sure. Thanks once again Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

EdR
(Texas)

Posts:170

11/01/2006 5:55 PM
What we have done in the past is to show our financial position in our newsletters and to have a line for the amount not paid and the percentage of homeowners. "For instance: 10 percent have not paid their dues, amounting to $20,000.00. Operating without this share of the maintenance and upkeep of our community is unfair to those who have paid their dues. Then since the mc sends out aps for pool access each year, and the annual meeting is in early Feb., and whatever other requirements to be in good standing--they are supposed to disallow their vote in the annual election and not send them a pool access ap. EdR

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

11/02/2006 8:16 AM
Charles: My opinion is I would stay away from publishing any names. As others have said it creates animosity and I don't know if it really serves a purpose other than to humiliate and degrade others. On the off chance someone paid their dues and got omitted it could be viewed as libel/slander, and if someone did not pay dues but got published then you have hurt chances to collect because you have publicly acknowledged that they are not delinquent.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

11/02/2006 1:10 PM
Posted By EdR on 11/01/2006 5:55 PM What we have done in the past is to show our financial position in our newsletters and to have a line for the amount not paid and the percentage of homeowners. "For instance: 10 percent have not paid their dues, amounting to $20,000.00. ................ I would be afraid that if people found out that others were not paying, they might stop paying also. Denying the vote and the pool pass (if you can enforce it) is good, charging whatever late fee or interest you can is also good. A letter to each delinquent each month might help also.

Ron SC

NikkiT
(Texas)

Posts:30

11/08/2006 9:12 AM
I do not agree with the thought of the financial status of a member is PUBLIC INFORMATION. Stating if a membership is current or not does not disclose any financial information of that person. Just that the membership dues/assessments have not been paid as agreed. The names of those memberships, current or delinquent, were not published in the newsletter of which I was editor for several years. There were too many other items needing to be put in that forum. However, the "list of current memberships" were in the meeting hall at the clubhouse. In full view, to be seen by anyone, whenever the clubhouse was open. No, this does not abuse the "financial privacy" of delinquent members - after all, if they paid their dues, their name would be on the list. Consider another thing, in most (if not all) bylaw documents, the LIST OF CURRENT MEMBERSHIPS ALLOWED TO VOTE IN ANY MEETING IS REQUIRED TO BE POSTED FOR ALL TO INSPECT. Consider another realistic way of looking at it. Which would hurt the delinquent member's feelings (and pocketbook) more? Being omitted from a current membership list or having their home forclosed and resold out from under them? By the way, what was the reason they gave for stopping the payment of dues/assessments? Did anyone bother to ask? To speak face to face? Or just start sending out dunn letters? As to 'rewarding' members for JUST DOING THEIR DUTY is the wrong way of looking at it. Do not kid yourself, the individual members know their 'delinquent' neighbors are 'getting away with not paying' and are very aware of neighbors who are getting away with being in violation of your CC&Rs. There is nothing wrong with giving your people, who do the right thing, a simple pat on the back. It lets them know their actions are being noticed in a good way. Usually this action will not cost you anything. It will reward YOU by the continued good will of your neighbors and members. This is not an easy topic to try to think through as it has far too many emotions attached to both sides. Good Luck. Nikki T.

JoeS4
(Kentucky)

Posts:77

11/08/2006 7:17 PM
O.K. everyone has enough if everyone pays on time, so make it a game, every three months in a row if you pay on time you get your name in a drawing, up to four times a year, at the end of the year a drawing occurs to allow someone to have one month of free dues or a prize worth near a months worths of dues, lenders and local merchants will donate the value to the H.O.A.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

11/08/2006 9:10 PM
cool idea joe!

GeraldT1

Posts:0

11/09/2006 5:04 AM
HOATalk members, Disagree 100%. Owners should not be rewarded for what they agreed to do in the first place, pay dues, and or assessments. GeraldT1 NNJ

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

11/09/2006 7:22 AM
Joe, do you mean assessments (manditory charge to property) rather than dues (voluntary payment to an organization)? If so, assessments must be paid and can not be awarded as a free prize - this is not a game. However, you are referring to a social organization, such as a voluntary HOA, games can be appropriate and you can reward members in any form the organization feels is appropriate.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

11/09/2006 7:49 AM
Posted By JoeS4 on 11/08/2006 7:17 PM O.K. everyone has enough if everyone pays on time, so make it a game, every three months in a row if you pay on time you get your name in a drawing, up to four times a year, at the end of the year a drawing occurs to allow someone to have one month of free dues or a prize worth near a months worths of dues, lenders and local merchants will donate the value to the H.O.A. The property owners or members are not children, they are adults and should understand that they need to pay their obligations. If they don't, use whatever language is in your CC&Rs, Bylaws, or whatever to compell them to do so. You may be able to charge them interest or late fees, you may be able to have your lawyer contact them and charge them the cost of doing this. The local government doesn't award prizes for paying property taxes, it takes the property if the taxes are not paid.

Ron SC

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/09/2006 8:46 AM
Ron, I agree w/you 100%, the HO's are not children and should not be treated as such. They know that their neighbors are paying for their grass to be cut, the street lights, and any other maintaince that may be in each particular neighborhood. If they are having a financial problem, it is up to them to contact the BOD's/MC and make them aware of the situation not just sit back and do nothing. Give the BOD's or MC a chance to work w/them with their obligation. These bills must be paid in order for survival of the HOA and the community. I certainly am not for taking someones home but do believe we should follow all the steps in the process of collection and if all else fails then file the lein, send to attorney for foreclosurer w/o any remorse for doing so. If they have been forwarned many times and choose to ignore the warnings then so be it. Our assessment fees and the collection of these fees are the most important jobs the BOD's/MC have, without money to run the duties of the association nothing else matters. The dog poop, loud music, cars parking in the street, "cats unleashed"(busy post), etc. isn't or shouldn't be priorty for maintaining our property value. Unless we have the money to meet our capital expenditures and our reserve funds, we basically have nothing. So IMO I say do what ever it takes to collect the HOA dues, think of the whole community not the individual who has made their "adult" choice not to contribute to the good of the community.

JoeS4
(Kentucky)

Posts:77

11/09/2006 9:53 AM
I wasn't talking about the manditory dues, however government does give you a discount in our area if you pay early, as much as 2 percent. We do the same if someone pays annually instead of monthly. Putting someones name in a hat for a umbrella or some other item donated just boost moral and adds something to meetings besides budgets and complaints, it doesn't matter whats required or not the more fun you make something the easier it is to get people to attend. Our last board meeting we had over 90 percent of 130 owners there.................leadership, communication, and people skills along with good organizations skills and a quality management company are all equally helpful, but if all the board members have attitudes like some of the ones on here I can see why over time communities give less and less response to demands. Everyone deserves to be treated equally as well as for the other golden rule ......treat others as you would want to be treated.......put that on the outside of each directors notebook, so before each meeting they look at that before making decisions. And come on people we have attorneys if we need them to be mean and rude..............lighten up, I get on here to share ideas and learn from others so I don't have to make the same mistakes..........not to listen to people fight, there is enough of that oversees. Good Luck

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

11/09/2006 10:06 AM
I appreciate all the suggested advice given to me. Some of which I agree with and other opinions in which I don’t, but never the less, one thing is for sure “collecting delinquent assessment” is this boards main priority. As the ole’ saying goes, it takes money to make money. I know the majority of you have heard this saying! This is my first year on the board. I have been thinking of ways to collect on these delinquent assessments. Our management company has sent out violation letters followed by lien letters and yes “if” and only “if” they sell, foreclosure is in place so we can collect. We even hired a PI, so we can actually find this delinquent homeowner to issue a judgment to garnish their wages. That costs money, that my association is desperately trying to come up with! I would have to disagree with what SidneyP had posted about “dog poop, loud music, cars parking in the street, "cats unleashed" all these things over time won’t increase property values. Imagine this, if you would………Lets say the community is 300 residents and half of them own a dog. These 150 homeowners walk their pet on a daily basis for exercise and so the dog may relieve themselves. Hypothetically, let’s say 80 of those dog walkers, actually pick up after their dogs (you know what), leaving the other 70 members (with dogs) to not pick up when their dog relieves themselves. I would say that 80 is a relatively high number as well. Never the less, When you take the 70 that don’t and multiple that by 7 days a week. I don’t think I need to do the math for you. That is a whole lot of (fill in the blank). When it comes time to clean it up, who will do it, when will it get done and how long will it take to rectified this situation? HMMMMMM While the board thinks about how they will correct this mess. It will stink to high Heaven! It will cost a great deal of money, and then you know who will be contributing to those costs (the responsible homeowners that do pay their assessments year after year). Probably the (80) people the picked up after their dogs! All the things you listed off won’t immediately decrease our property values but over time it certainly could. I do so appreciate all the opinions and advice I have received thus far. Thank you all Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

11/09/2006 10:57 AM
JoeS4, Mandatory assessments was the topic of CharlesW1's original, and I believe most of the other posts. My disagreement with rewards for mandatory assessments is NOT a sponsorship for a LACK of leadership, communication, and people skills of which you opine. Providing incentives for non mandatory dues is meritable. I understand the intent of encouragement, but respectfully disagree with enticement in the manner of which you propose when it comes to mandatory assessments. What impirical evidence is there that incentives will encourage non-paying members to participate in a process that requires mandatory assessments? If owners don't respond to a potential lien or fines from remaining in arrears, what makes you think they will respond to a gift of an umbrella, or an olive branch broken by their unfullfilled pledge? GeraldT1 NNJ

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:292

11/09/2006 12:42 PM
" I would have to disagree with what SidneyP had posted about “dog poop, loud music, cars parking in the street, "cats unleashed" all these things over time won’t increase property values." Chuck, by all means I didn't say these things didn't matter, of course they do and the rules should be enforced. But PRIORTY ONE must be the collection of our HOA dues. I didn't say neglect the other rules and restrictions. I simply beleive it is the duty of the BOD's/MC to collect these dues by and to the fullest means that the law allows....Right now it appears my own HOA will not have enought (we are newly HO run) money to last the year at paying our bill let alone repairing/replacing the things the developer left for us. We started out w/2 fountains, one broke, the developer desided not to fix it, just to have one. Turned it over to us this way. The other fountain has been broke now since April and we have many bushes that have died and need replacing. There is no money to repair these things at this time. WHY? you say, because we have six HO's that have not paid for over a year(we pay $372 every six monthes)so thats 3 payments they have missed (3x372x6=$6,696.) Then we have fivs a lot of money fore(5) more that did not pay the July dues(total $8,556.) That"s a lot for a very small community like ours(77 units). And to make matters worse, the developer had lowballed our annual budget figures which was never questioned by the HO's. So I will stick by my opinion that the MONEY has priorty over anything else.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

11/09/2006 1:09 PM
Joe, congrats on getting over 90% of 130 owners to attend a meeting. WOW!! There is nothing wrong with providing gifts (other than exempting assessments) at an HOA meeting which all owners may attend. Refreshments, gifts, or any other enticements which bring members to a meeting is a great idea IMO.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

11/11/2006 6:07 AM
Posted By RogerB on 11/09/2006 1:09 PM ........... There is nothing wrong with providing gifts (other than exempting assessments) at an HOA meeting which all owners may attend. Refreshments, gifts, or any other enticements which bring members to a meeting is a great idea IMO. That's fine, espcially the refreshments, buy no gifte as a bribe for paying required assessments. ----------------------------------------------------------------- .............. I have been thinking of ways to collect on these delinquent assessments. Our management company has sent out violation letters followed by lien letters and yes “if” and only “if” they sell, foreclosure is in place so we can collect. We even hired a PI, so we can actually find this delinquent homeowner to issue a judgment to garnish their wages. That costs money, that my association is desperately trying to come up with! The wording in your CC&Rs should allow you to collect any (reasonable) collection costs so hiring a PI, collection agency, whatever is fine. You can tack the costs on to what the property owner owes. Does the owner actually live in the home or does he/she rent it? If it's rented, and you can't find the owner, the county tax records should list the owner's namd and address.

Ron SC

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

11/11/2006 6:23 AM
Posted By SidneyP on 11/09/2006 8:46 AM .............. If they are having a financial problem, it is up to them to contact the BOD's/MC and make them aware of the situation not just sit back and do nothing. Give the BOD's or MC a chance to work w/them with their obligation. ........ True, but ............. Using my home as an example, my county property tax bill is about $2,300 this year. THe HOA dues are $145.00 for the entire year. $145.00 per year is pretty insignificant compared to the other expenses (mortgage, utilities, maintenance, etc.) of owning the home. It's the equivalent of one large bucket of fried chicken per month. If a homeowner claims that he or she cannot pay the $145.00, they are putting the HOA dues at the very bottom of their priorities.

Ron SC

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