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RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 3:56 PM
My HOA filed suit against me for $2500.00($1500.00 attorney fees) for having coolers in driveway. My husband fishes and they would be out there every now and then. Is this right. Please help and let me know if I should fight this.

NickK
(Florida)

Posts:30

10/17/2006 4:13 PM
Did you receive a letter(s) warning you this was against the rules of the community? Did you receive notice of a hearing indicating you would be fined if you did not comply? Is you did, why did you ignore them? If not, you need to check your CC&R's, they should indicate indicate how the board can impose fines.

RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 4:16 PM
All I received was remove miscellaneous items. And when I received the letters I had nothing in the driveway. So I figured I had my trash can out from when trash ran. I know I probably should have called but I would have never thought the coolers since they were not out there all the time. And thank you for getting back with me.

NickK
(Florida)

Posts:30

10/17/2006 4:21 PM
It most cases the board must notify of a hearing and then can impose fines. To add attorney fees tells me that had to get an attorney to send letters, start collection procedings and/or put a lien on your house. Seems like there needed to be numerous communications sent to you before an attorney got involved.

RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 4:30 PM
I did receive a letter from an attorney. I honestly disregarded the letter because I assumed (my mistake) I had complied with what they wanted. I now know that I should have called but I would have never thought it was coolers like I said. I have taken pictures of about 40-50 houses and they have stuff in their driveways. One has had a picnic table in her driveway for years. How is that ok and then I get sued for 2 coolers up against my garage door. Look I now know that I was in the wrong half way. But should I have to pay that large amount of money for 2 collers in my driveway?

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

10/17/2006 4:43 PM
You should study your CC&R's and Rules and Regulations to see what it says about items in the driveway and coolers, etc. Then collect all of the letters that you have received. There must a fine procedure spelled out. A judge will allow "reasonable" attorney fees. $1500 for one letter doesn't sound reasonable. The first letter should have identified what the violation was and how long you have to cure the problem, and the fine procedure. There should have been follow up letters. Get everything together, then write a letter to the board asking for a hearing. It seems you are being fined $1000 plus $1500 attorney fees and that sounds excessive.

RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 4:57 PM
I have to have a letter to the court my Monday morning. So asking for a hearing with the board right now will not do any good. I tried to talk with them and they wouldn't talk with me. I have received I believe 2 letters from the attorney and I do not have them any more. Like I said I thought I had taken care of what ever needed to be taken care of. It seems that once I removed items from the driveway and weeks later or even a month later they would have to start over not go back from the first time. That would mean you never can have anything in your driveway. How about the person with the picnic table in her driveway for years. How can that be ok. I am going to ask the lawyer to send me copies of the letter(s) that they have sent me.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

10/17/2006 5:04 PM
to answer your second question, how can the picnic table be okay? four ways I can think of: 1) The owner asked for, and received approval from the board years ago to place the table in the driveway. They issued a variance, or made a ruling to allow it. it was done legal and proper, with board approval 2) the owner is also being fined for non compliance, and has decided to simply pay or ignore the fines. 3) No one has ever complained, mentioned, or pointed it out. 4) It isn't a violation for some reason (read the CC&R's carefully. Perhaps chairs, seats and tables are okay, coolers are not).

RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 5:27 PM
I have read the CC&R's. There is nothing in there that states table, chairs ect. are ok. It talks about trash being out, motorized vehicles and non-motorized not being in the driveway or in front of the house ect. Look I can see if I need to pay some kind of fee because I should have called to make sure what these people were referring to. But I think that $2500.00 is extremely to much. I will go to the house that has the table and find out if they have received letters and everyone else that has a cooler in their driveway because there are people and I have taken pictures of these houses.

WilliamT
(Arizona)

Posts:489

10/17/2006 6:24 PM
Apparently the CC&R's don't refer to coolers either. The board is required to enforce the CC&R's evenly and fairly. So if you can document that they are not enforcing them evenly then that will go against the board. See what the CC&R's and Rules and Regulations say about the fine process. It must be spelled out. If fines are not spelled out, then the board will have a problem enforcing them. The court will determine what is reasonable attorney fees, in the event it rules against you.

RhondaS1
(Texas)

Posts:6

10/17/2006 6:33 PM
I would like to thank everyone who has responded, your input has been helpful.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1458

10/17/2006 11:52 PM
I hope everything works out for you but I would like to point a couple of things out. Never throw out letters from the attorney or the Board, they should be kept until you sell or die whichever comes first. Second if something like this happens again; don't call write. How do you prove that you called or what if anything was agreed to when you called. Remember, document, document, document. There is a sharp increase of foreclosures throughout the country, a lot for relatively small fines that people have ignored until the sheriff comes knocking.

NickK
(Florida)

Posts:30

10/18/2006 4:05 AM
Sorry to say this, but sounds like you may have dropped the ball. Appears you had numerous warnings yet did not reply. Unless the board did not follow proper procedure or does not have sufficient evidence, I doubt you can fight the fine, which appears to be $1000. As far as the $1500 for attorney fees, I'm not sure if that is excessive, but if your covenants state you can be fined and be held accountable for attorney fees you may have to pay that too. Good Luck.

CynthiaD
(Nevada)

Posts:20

10/19/2006 2:35 PM
Rhonda What state are in located? CynthiaD

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

10/19/2006 4:53 PM
Teling the BOD that this guy has this that and the other is no defense. I am willing to bet you got 2 letters and ignored them both. So you got sent what other people do is of no consequence what so ever. Its you and the Property manager or inspection party. You need to understand each person who does inspections has certain things that are bug a boos to them. When I walk my dog ( I am the Treas) my biggest complaint is cars parked on any portion of the sidewalk. Why such a big deal? Simple I know what it costs to replace broken sidewalks and how much agriveation it tales to get people to stop parking on the sidewalks but I get the same old arguement johnny does it why cant I? I say show me johnnys car and I send his plare to the local community cop and he gives him a 45 dollar ticket ( City Police).

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

10/19/2006 5:27 PM
John, i agree with your post (and your pet peeve, i share that too, ugh!), and while "johnny does it, why can't I?" is not a valid defense, if Johnny does it, and the board allows it, and I do it, and I get fined, it does drill holes in the fairness and equal application required of enforcement. It makes the board defense weak. If someone does it and it isn't seen, that's one thing... people speed, and the police only catch a few. However, if someone has been stopped for speeding, and the police let them leave without a ticket, then stop you and give you one, they better have a darn good reason to explain the discrepancy. perhaps there is a reason the HOA enforces rule X here, and not Rule Y there... but a good board should be able to enumerate the reason to everyone, so that everyone knows the playing field is level. When a board does not have an answer, or they dismiss the question out of hand, they are playing into the hands of the accusor. the board should be well prepared to explain their policies and decisions when asked, and they can stop a lot of these issues from escalating. I have even experienced a board that HAD a solid reason to deny a request, push off an "accusor", dismiss him, ignore him, etc., until he finally fomented a small rebellion among the owners. That board was overthrown, eventually, and when the new board came to power, they discovered the rule/reason, and simply told the original accusor "you can't do that because of this rule. Period." the accusor was fine with it, he just wanted to be taken seriously, and hear the reason his request was rejected. the board in this situation sounds like they have done due diligence, and I hope they are prepared to answer the questions that the owner will throw to them. If they are prepared, then this issue will shortly find its conclusion. If they are not prepared, then this issue will last a long time.

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