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PaulS2
(Illinois)

Posts:2

08/30/2006 6:00 AM
We are an IL. HOA. Our board is ignoring our by-laws regarding voting procedures, and project approvals (inital project and approval of large overruns). Repeated requests, though appropriate channels, to the board have just been ignored. The board president was removed (we followed our bylaws), but there were not enough votes to remove the other members. As a result, the board continues forward with their agenda and ignoring the wishes and concerns of the other homeowners. Our reserves will be depleted by the cost overruns on the project they are pushing. SO, next to a lawsuit (which no one has the stomach for)how do we stop the board? Are there any state agencies that can act as our advocate? Thanks for you help. Lost in IL.

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

08/30/2006 6:34 AM
PaulS2, I’m sorry to hear of your problem. I wish I could be of help to you, but I’m in the process of learning all I can do and can’t do in an HOA community. I would expect you to receive plenty of very good advice from many of the people on this discussion board. I have read in your post that the other board members couldn’t be removed because there weren’t enough votes. What does your by-laws say is needed for them to be removed? Do proxies count? Are those only used for voting? HMMMM just a thought. Do you have volunteers to run for the positions that will be vacant? These questions may help you receive the advice you are looking for. Best of luck, Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

08/30/2006 6:38 AM
PaulS2, Short of getting an attorney and filing suit, your first recourse is to organize a group of owners, present a letter of request at an open meeting, mail the letter certified return receipt requested to the board c/o management, and get petition for the removal of the entire board, storm the bastille and get things on track. You have no choice, since it's your investments at stake. If a compromise develops all the better. For example, instead of all board members being replaced, all you really need is a quorum (majority/tri-fecta). However, expand your level of conciousness, get educated on your by-laws, cc&r's, state and local laws, because there is a great deal of work involved in running an association. Your membership in HOATalk will prove invaluable, as it is a resource I am delighted to have access to. Very best of success!! GeraldT1 NNJ

PaulS2
(Illinois)

Posts:2

08/30/2006 11:05 AM
Thanks for the initial comments. We did sent notices to the board asking for updates - IGNORED. We did sent certified letters to the board asking for a meeting as established in our by-laws - IGNORED. That led to the ouster vote. Our by-laws require a simple majority, and proxies are, and were, allowed to be part of the vote. Since the entire board did not receive sufficient votes to remove them (only the president received sufficient votes), the current board remains in existence (per our by-laws). We did have candidates ready if all board members had been voted out. As a result, the remaining board (with the removed president still helping them in the background)is just moving forward, while continuing to ignore the concern of other homeowners. As a side comment, I would recommend to anyone looking to remove your entire board that you reconsider and allow the voters the option of removing all or only certain members. If you demand all or none, you stand the risk of not gaining anything. The pressure applied on our neighbors to not vote their neighbor or friend off the board was huge. Friendships were at risk, to include statments that "our kids will never play together again if you vote my spouse off the board". Its gets ugly, so be prepared! In the meantime, though, the board is moving ahead with it's agenda. That is our frustration. Short of a lawsuit or injunction, how do we get the attention of the board? PaulS2

GeraldT1

Posts:0

08/30/2006 5:01 PM
PaulS2, First, my recommendation is that your community instability never go public or come to a lawsuit. Your property values will plummet, in an already nationwide downturn. It is not worth it, even with a bad board. Second, try again to get another two board members out. Third, do NOT withhold maintenance, you didn't suggest it, but I'm just laying that out there. Fourth, and most important: As a group, begin a campaign with candidates to fill each of the spots, hand deliver a letter to all owners outlining your goals and how you will accomplish those goals so as to comply with the laws. Strategically, do not even mention the existing board members, as if they do not even exist. State that all financials will be posted in a prominant location, all meetings (executive, workshop) will be open unless the matter is of sensitive nature for owner privacy, all minutes will be taken and then ratified at the next open meeting, etc. Come up with some landscape beautification, and kids projects and how you will begin a fundraiser so as not to tax the owners in assessments but to benefit all the families. In essence, paint a picture of how you would like things to run. This will tell everyone how it will be different under your group's leadership. This is the most strategic advise I can offer, hope it helps. Best of success!! GeraldT1 NNJ

LibbyQ
(Texas)

Posts:7

09/01/2006 6:51 AM
I am sorry to hear of your trouble, I have experienced this issue twice in my young life. If they are using a threat to HURt your child, punish you child you need to take out the big guns. I suggest (1) buy a digital voice recorder and use it for every phone conversation and physical meetings.(the microphones are pretty sensitive up to 10 feet away if they speak up, and it sounds like these people speak up. Deliberately inquire abut specific progress in the committee and ask to sit in on their meetings, unless they are already open. These meeting should be reocrded as well. Audit the books. Find a person among you who has no threats from wives about breaking friendships (that's it, threaten to hurt our child, great parenting?*!)that can bring the bylaws or charter and confidentially confer with an attorney experienced in this area. The atty might have a few tricks up his sleeve he can suggest. Sometimes filing a suit solves the problem, and maybe theywon't call your bluff. But if they do be prepared, set them up, have all your ducks in order. I can buy criminal background checks for $3 from the TX Department of Public Safety. Go to the county and state courthouses and search their records for any evidence aobut the teenagers DUI, bankruptcies, foreclosures, or something they might prefer to conceal from the membership that would motivate them to resign before being recommended for removal before being exposed as a risk to the leadership based on their moral character flaws, illegal behaviors. Be sure and let the attorney submit the information to the membership and the parties in question and make sure he discloses his client, the meek, lovable guy/gal with no risk of inury to any children. In addition, most times these records can be found on line. It varies state by state. The Local City Police Dept has online searches for outstanding warrants on the "best" people. A freind of mine's daughter began counseling sessions with someone her mother and stepfather had used for a year for marriage counseling. He had the right to refuse her chice of doctors. He allowed her to go, based on his ex's year of familiarity with the therapist. I investigated and within a minute found a disciplinary action against this PhD occuring two years ago for sexual misconduct. Well we both thought, she's just doing her client. Well she was. this married counselor, writing books about relationships and publishing books on religious spiritual guides to life thru her synogogue,where she is a well known sprirtual guide was a real example of a spiritual guide. The PhD confided with one of her "partners" about the case, as is customary and disclosed her sexual relationship, admitting they were "developing an intimate relationship", claiming they waited to do anything physical, until after she released her from therapy. SURE. They reported her to the board. She had been counseling a married patient and after almost two years had completed the "spiritual guide " and basically coerced the patient to want to divorce their spouse and abruptly stopped seeing the patient so she could have sex, SURE. I researched online for King County Court records and found that her husand filed for divorce 5 months later. King County tax records showed a home purchased by the still married therapist and another female owner. I researched the other homeowner on the Google and found a notice of their "commitment ceremony" in the Seattle paper, and discovered her lover/client had been a married FEMALE. I double checked just for kicks on the online listing of "lesbian unions" and found a notice of their "marriage" at the therapist's synogogue. My friend pulled his daughter out of therpay with this lesbian spiritual therapist before she got into her pants. Everything I found I found online for free. I didn't even have to pay for the Washington State Medical review "court" records because there eren't more than however many pages. Pay to have a criminal background check on each person on the board. You would be surprised at how many of your neighbors have skeletons in their cedar closets. Do a relatively deep backgound check on all the leaders in question. I suggest we take more care in approving nominees for leadership positions in our communities. Some members in my group were totally opposed to my suggestion and inquiry about using a standard background check from the current state and the immediate past state of residence or a credit check, unless you get them bonded. Other members insisted and thought if they have nothing to hide what would they care. Their employers in many cases have already done this and may even repeat it periodically. Use detailed lengthy questionaires for their references, with specific inquires regarding their value in a group project, their "voluntary" contributions to peers "just because". How often do they attend voluntary working lunches, evenings or weekends with a group to meet a deadline? Before you begin, let the nominees know that their references will never be made available to them. If the reference thinks there's any chance it might be read by the nominee they will sweet talk or generalize and a small character flaw might remain concealed about this proposed leader. Real references can be a useful tool in selcting nominees, hoping you will choose a perosn who was at least ethical, and a BONUS might get you someone with moral character. Hope no one finds any offense to my sharing. Just making a point about what's available abut people online and hoe some people might want to stay concealed behind their white picket fences. Can you send me alink to your bylaws. I ened a copy of a wroking organization that allows removal of an y officer by majority vote. I really appreciate. email: lwnpct"at"walla.com

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/01/2006 9:19 AM
LibbyQ, Thanks for the read, it was amusing. However, what you describe is straight out of Harper Valley PTA, rent it if you haven't seen it already. While the ability exists to provide background checks, I really think it's far reaching. Because there is no better proof of a good HOA/COA BOD than a month to six months under their leadership. Everyone, including yourself could have past experiences they'd rather not share with the public. Some of which, for example, sexual identity, or partnership, are irrelevant to a person's ability to lead. Black and white information leads to stereotyping, and off base judgements especially when viewed by those with a propensity to gossip. GeraldT1 NNJ

LibbyQ
(Texas)

Posts:7

09/01/2006 11:55 AM
Thanks for the input. A backgroundcheck doesn't tell you if I'm green or bisexual, and this story was simply to show how I so easlity researched info on the internet. Sex wasn't the point. I Live in Austin TX, and nobody cares who you have sex with or how many. If these great officer's wives are threatening their own flesh and blood, not to mention other member's children, I would guess the board members might be doing something wrong that are not simply against the bylaws. Otherwise, I wouldn't lay down for anyone, especially someone who threatened my child. I would end the relationship that my child had with the parents, even if no attorney was hired. I wouldn't let my child go to that home or have any association with the parents at all. I would explain exactly what the mother threatened. Kids are smarter than we think, but we are responsible adults and must choose to do what is right, in this case for our community and our investments. Does your organization have a solid set of bylaws? If so would you share them with me. Or better yet, would you give me your opinion on two different sets? (: P.S. I'd bet my life her husband is on the board to stay away from that mother of a _ithc. She should have her children taken away from her.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

09/01/2006 12:06 PM
Gerald: I actually agree with you on this point. To me it matters not what orientation, race, height, weight, religion you are. Furthermore, if you were thrown in jail as a kid on a misdeanor offense or had a house foreclosed on doesn't mean you are a bad person. No matter how rotten the current board is I could never condone playing the game of politician where you find dirt on someone, no matter how irrelevant, to get them to step down. Good luck finding volunteers after that. Yes, it is possible to find out just about anything about anyone, but these folks are volunteers, not employees and background checks should be left to employment agencies IMO.

GeraldT1

Posts:0

09/02/2006 8:33 AM
BradP, Very cute, ha, ha. Glad we agree on this one. While the investment of property is important, those that oversee it are volunteers after all. IMO background checks into owners is petty and pointless. It doesn't take much to know if someone is doing a good or bad job. Libby - Not sure what it is you are seeking on two different sets of by-laws? If you could explain further, perhaps in a new post, you may get the responses you seek.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

09/02/2006 10:59 AM
wasn't trying to be cute...

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