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GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:767

08/20/2008 7:51 AM
He should have sought permission first, I think. But isn't this an instance of covenant/board overkill? It is hard for me to fathom that covenants are so detailed as to specify the species of grass that can be grown. Unable to keep his fescue grass healthy under Raleigh's two-day-a-week water restrictions, Bernstein decided this year to go unnatural. He paid a Youngsville company more than $6,000 to install 400 square feet of artificial grass in his front yard. Soon after the fake grass was installed, Bernstein got a letter from the Falls River Homeowners Association informing him that it was unapproved material. The letter said that the association's covenants require fescue* lawns.* The association told Bernstein that to appeal the ruling he would have to get his neighbors to approve his new lawn. Getting the neighbors' approval proved to be no problem, Bernstein said. Most of them didn't notice the fake grass, he said. When neighbors asked Bernstein how he kept his lawn so green, he told them his secret and invited them to touch the product. Fake lawns are most popular in California and the arid southwestern United States, where homeowners receive government rebates for installing water-saving landscapes. Even in those states, disputes are common between residents who install fake grass and homeowners associations that forbid the product. In 2007, the town of Surprise, Ariz., amended its municipal code to keep homeowners associations from prohibiting the use of artificial grass. The Falls River association's board of directors denied Bernstein's appeal last month, even after he submitted the required neighbor signatures and photos and a sample of the fake grass. The board ordered that the material be removed by Sept. 30. http://www.newsobserver.com/nrn/story/1185415.html

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

08/20/2008 8:23 AM
George, Just a little bit off of the subject but my new Tennessee Developer has it written into the Covs that all lawns must be tall Fescue. It stays green all year long and is really drought tollerant so thus he requires it. Now 2 things with the O.P. Numer 1, he did not get approval to install the artificial grass which is what his real problem is. Number 2, the covenants require Fescue and he did not follow that requirement. Do I agree with any of this? Probably not. As a Master Gardner for my new County, we are seeing all kinds of creative skirting of landscape requirements for HOAs. The T.V.A. here is begging people to find ways to conserve water and I recently completed a study on Xeriscaping (for my certification). There will have to be changes made in how we use water. Over 51% of water usage in America goes to landscape and lawn watering. N. Carolina, Georgia and some parts of Tn are in their 2nd year of drought with Atlantas main water provider, drying up. We will have to seek alternative ways to landscape and sooner than we think. We need to change our mindsets and look at Egypt, Dubai and all of the Middle East That used to be lush and green.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/20/2008 12:11 PM
Just curious Donna, how far back historically are you looking to find Egypt Lush and Green?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2483

08/20/2008 12:29 PM
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 08/20/2008 7:51 AM (some info deleted) Even in those states, disputes are common between residents who install fake grass and homeowners associations that forbid the product. In 2007, the town of Surprise, Ariz., amended its municipal code to keep homeowners associations from prohibiting the use of artificial grass. The Falls River association's board of directors denied Bernstein's appeal last month, even after he submitted the required neighbor signatures and photos and a sample of the fake grass. The board ordered that the material be removed by Sept. 30. http://www.newsobserver.com/nrn/story/1185415.html George, I looked up the municipal code for Surprise, AZ and have posted it below. Note that it says: "provided such landscaping receives appropriate architectural review approval." Note that is does not specify artificial grass and the design may not be prohibited SOLELY on the basis that the design makes use of water-efficient landscaping." The read this to mean the h/o must have another reason for wanting the artificial turf. Sec. 58-595. Prohibition on certain covenants, conditions and restrictions. Any person(s) or association(s) are prohibited from imposing private covenants, conditions, restrictions, deed clauses or other agreements between the parties, which prevents person(s) from utilizing water-efficient landscaping provided such landscaping receives appropriate architectural-review approval. Landscaping designs may not be prohibited solely on the basis that such design makes use of water-efficient landscaping.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

08/20/2008 1:01 PM
Brian, Before I was born and probably you too.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/20/2008 3:24 PM
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 08/20/2008 7:51 AM It is hard for me to fathom that covenants are so detailed as to specify the species of grass that can be grown. Why is it hard to fathom that an HOA might specify species of grass? Many many many many HOA's specify the species of animals that may be kept, and even go deeper, and specify that only certain breeds within a species may be allowed... or even MORE specific, only certain WEIGHTS within a breed within a species. At least, with the species rule, you are talking major differences in anatomy, morphology, breeding habits, chromosomes, but almost every HOA i know specifies down to an atomic level what paint colors you are allowed. Toss in some extra Manganese, and you are suddenly being fined, while your neighbor's level of manganese is acceptable.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/20/2008 3:27 PM
Gosh donna, i would hope it was before you and I were born. Egypt has been 90+% desert for several thousand years (give or take the shifting borders of Egypt over that period). I remember some of the later pharoahs, sure, we played together on the banks of the nile... but not the early dynasties.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2483

08/20/2008 4:04 PM
I was Cleopatra in another life and I vividly remember romping with my pet asp in those lush green meadows down by the Nile. LOL

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

08/20/2008 4:47 PM
Yeah Brian, Cleo and Caesar had lush gardens brought in by water from the Nile, which is now basically a poop canal. Don't you remember when we used to pick our own grapes for dinner? But we ARE losing our water, slowly but surely and I really don't like Fescue either but as I always say, 'A COVENANT IS A COVENANT"

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1458

08/20/2008 4:57 PM
Posted By DonnaS on 08/20/2008 8:23 AM N. Carolina, Georgia and some parts of Tn are in their 2nd year of drought with Atlantas main water provider, drying up. Donna isn't that why Georgia is trying to move their border north a mile into Tennessee so they can have access to the Tennessee River?

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

08/21/2008 7:07 AM
I don't think so...there are so many variations of grasses, some are very aggressive and some aren't, so I think specifying what type you can plant is appropriate considering most people have no idea what grass is good for each climate. I am amazed how many people in our neighborhood don't know what there grass is and ask me all the time. Fescue is a very good grass and there is zero reason why he couldn't keep it green with two days a week watering. Grass is supposed to be watered infrequently and for long durations at a time, and fescue typically requires one inch of water a week to stay healthy, so that argument to me does not hold water. If he had a sprinkler system there should have been absolutely no problem maintaining a quality lawn in his climate. Bottomline is he should have asked permission first, not later. Whether or not fake grass is acceptable is up to the board. If done properly it can look great, if not done properly you will have drainage and other nightmares.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

08/21/2008 7:24 AM
Oh Brian, Don't even mention that subject. Georgia wants to move the border north by 1 mile which would give them the rights to that part of the water. I live about 4 miles north of the river as it goes thru Chattanooga. They don't call this the "Scenic City" for nothing. This border dispute has been going on for 50 years when someone noticed that half of the States had borders that were changed. Probably easier to define a State if they followed natural borders like rivers, Mt ranges, etc. Atlanta needs water so bad and we have a river. But the TVA owns the rights to control it and they are trying to stay neutral, leaving Tn to fight this alone.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/21/2008 12:21 PM
Oh donna, that wasn't me mentioning Georgia's encroachment... But, how bout that Georgia encroachment? Heck of a thing, eh?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2944

08/21/2008 12:43 PM
I musta meant Glen. Sorry Glen I was thinking (dangerous) about when we bought our Florida home. The covenants required "Flortam" grass which is a hybred crabgrass that the U. of Fla. developed to save water and to deal with drought without turning brown. I thought that it was odd that someone told us what kind of grass that we had to have. So this Fescue thing isn't something new but just that we really don't think much of it until the artificial turf showed up. But as we said earlier, this is an issue of the owner not getting approval

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/21/2008 1:59 PM
My biggest concern for approving such a project would be who decides it is time to replace the grass? I am very much for conserving natural resources. And I understand that today's artificial turn looks very real. But eventually it will need to be replaced (or at least a touch up done. To that end I would look to broker a deal whereby if the (artificial) grass goes south the HOA could then require either fixing it or replacement with real. As a note, fescue is my favorite grass, but only does well in the shade here.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1848

08/21/2008 2:09 PM
Kirk, wouldn't that automatically fall into the "Duty to Maintain" covenant, anyway? If one's shed (if they're allowed)falls into disrepair, it must be corrected. If one's fence falls into disrepair, it must be repaired. So I would imagine that if one's artificial turf falls into disrepair (fades, becomes torn, has holes in it, gets spotty, whatever it is that happens to old or damaged artificial turf), that it would also fall into this category. One would think . . .

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/21/2008 9:09 PM
I would think so, but ....

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1848

08/22/2008 6:23 AM
I know, I know! One man's "disrepair" is another man's "patina"!

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1848

08/22/2008 6:23 AM
I know, I know! One man's "disrepair" is another man's "patina"!

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/22/2008 12:12 PM
Consider in Dallas where there was no more then a voluntary call for reduction after 3 years of drought (And that was because other cities were running completely out.), there were still wars over how much was enough or how green was green enough. Heck we even had one HOA hitting both sides of the same issue. One owner was the highest water consumer in the city. (The city finally stepped in after a news story showing the water going into the storm system.) The other side they were fighting people letting their grass get yellow green. It is rough out there.

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