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| Providing Community Association Insurance for over 25 years: D&O Liability, Crime Products, Umbrella Coverage and Property Manager's Errors & Omissions Liability. |
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DarylF
(Washington)
Posts:69
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| 09/24/2008 9:15 AM |
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One of our three board members has commissioned the HOA’s attorney for projects without discussing it with the other two board members twice now. (because I know someone will ask, yes, I have talked to the other two board members and this is without a doubt true, and neither are happy about it, but that really has very little to do with my question...).
On to my question, I requested from our property manager the cost of these two projects. Thus far the PM is ignoring me.
Washington has an open records law:
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.38.045
“All records of the association, including the names and addresses of owners and other occupants of the lots, shall be available for examination by all owners, holders of mortgages…”
I believe the cost charged to the HOA by our atorney falls into “all records”. Am I correct? Should I be allowed to know the costs of the Attorney projects? Thus far the request has only been through email, but I'm sending it out today via certified mail.
Thanks
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DarylF
(Washington)
Posts:69
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| 09/24/2008 12:39 PM |
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To be clear, I'm asking if how much we paid an attorney for a specific task is part of the open records. I don't care what the attorney said, I just want to know how much we were charged.
Anyone? |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2489
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| 09/24/2008 12:59 PM |
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Daryl,
I certainly don't think this is an unreasonable request. Frankly, "attorney fees" should be a line item on the profit & loss statement. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 09/24/2008 5:37 PM |
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I agree - BUT, the board should be well aware of the cost per hour for attorney fees - and believe me - the Board WILL get an invoice. Ask to see that invoice. It should be itemized.
P.S. I know you don't want to dicuss this, but where I come from, anytime a board member is "on the clock" with the attorney, there is a motion behind that action.
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1190
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| 09/25/2008 12:12 AM |
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Because of my HOA nightmare playing right now, I have been looking at the relevant Texas laws to litigation and their costs. As I understand it, all records regarding litigation are not subject to release in a records request. The exception is that in cases where the cost of litigation is assessed to the owner, the owner has a right to see the invoices. (Though the owner can be required to pay either all or some of it first. The thing lost me as it then spoke of holding said money aside until such time as the final invoices have been produced.)
Now here is the thing to keep in mind: if you are right or wrong they may still refuse to divulge the information. At that point, you could be stuck unless willing to pay for an attorney to bring about action on the issue.
What I would do? Well, in Texas you can (legally) record any of your conversations. And thus I would record a conversation with each of the other two board members discussing the actions of the third. Then I would put them on the spot to deal with it. The choices being quite simple:
If they support it, there is a recall for one person. IF they don't you throw them under the bus and release their conversation to the membership and recall all three.
Now understand this may not be a good idea in your state as I don't know what you can legally record. Further, it is very dirty politics. But unfortunately, some days they are the best option available. Certainly my way is cheaper the the lawyer way. And I am just not a fan of enriching lawyers (sorry George). |
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DarylF
(Washington)
Posts:69
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| 09/25/2008 8:41 AM |
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Thanks for the help.
One of these days I'll write up the entire story that ties all my posts together, hopefully with a happy ending.
Long story short, we have three board members and a PM. We have a evil board member who is very close to the PM and they protect each other. The evil board members rules with a loud voice and a big stick. We have a hero board member that is fighting to do the right thing but is ready to quit because the evil board member doesn't even let her talk without belittling her. And we have a third board member that knows what the right thing is, wants to do the right thing, but is to afraid to rock the boat so he does nothing as the evil board member always looks over at him and says "right?" And he just nods his head so the boat doesn't rock... |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2316
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| 09/25/2008 9:08 AM |
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Darly-
Secret ballot voting on motions takes care of all that "fear" AND the perceived "power" that each board member has.
Since all actions of the board need motions, a request to have a ballot vote (also needing a motion and approval) can simply be done before each vote, as needed.
Let the anonymous cast ballots fall where they may . . . .
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