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ElizabethB1
(Arkansas)

Posts:43

08/23/2008 1:29 PM
Our docs say, "The president shall be ex-officio a member of all committees." We have a committee made up of three members-at-large of the association. This committee has been charged with developing guidelines and standards for the homes in our association. The committee will research such items as replacement roofing materials, exterior lighting, etc. before presenting recommendations to the board of directors for its approval (or its disapproval). What should the role of the president of the association be on this "guidelines" committee. Should she be allowed to discuss and vote? Or should she just be present at the committee meetings? In the end the president along with the other directors have veto power with whatever is presented to them. I'm wondering if its a good idea for an ex-officio to have "voting" rights on the committee? TIA

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2946

08/23/2008 1:55 PM
Elizabeth, In very simple english, "Ex-Officio" means that they can vote, present or not. It is a good thing for Presidents to be empowered with in the case of a HOA having many committees and it is difficult for any President or Board member to be present for all of them. They still hold the power of President of the committee but good Presidents are only there under the "Ex-Officio" title in the event of a locked decision such as approvals for ARC items and decisions that a committee will be required to make such as and perhaps a budget discussion. Perhaps if a committee needs a different direction in researching, the President can then redirect them.. All committees work solely for their BODs and have no vote power as to final decisions on contracts, final expenditures, etc. That is what Boards are elected to do so the committees function is to do the preliminary work , getting research done, write documents and basically prepare work for the Board then to take over. She probably could better serve by being a "Liaison" between your committee and the Board .

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:768

08/23/2008 2:42 PM
Posted By DonnaS on 08/23/2008 1:55 PM Elizabeth, In very simple english, "Ex-Officio" means that they can vote, present or not. It is a good thing for Presidents to be empowered with in the case of a HOA having many committees and it is difficult for any President or Board member to be present for all of them. They still hold the power of President of the committee but good Presidents are only there under the "Ex-Officio" title in the event of a locked decision such as approvals for ARC items and decisions that a committee will be required to make such as and perhaps a budget discussion. Perhaps if a committee needs a different direction in researching, the President can then redirect them.. All committees work solely for their BODs and have no vote power as to final decisions on contracts, final expenditures, etc. That is what Boards are elected to do so the committees function is to do the preliminary work , getting research done, write documents and basically prepare work for the Board then to take over. She probably could better serve by being a "Liaison" between your committee and the Board . Ex-officio is simply a term meaning, "by virtue of office or official position." It means that the president is a member of the committee(s) by virtue of his or her office. It does not mean that the president is president of the committee. The president is just a member of the committee. "Can an ex-officio member vote, make motions, or debate? Yes, the term "ex officio", when no written rule addresses it otherwise, refers to a METHOD of sitting with a body, not a "class" of membership. It tells how one becomes a member (by virtue of the office), not what their rights are. If the rights of ex-officio members are to be restricted, that must be done in the bylaws. Otherwise, ex-officio members have the same rights as elected or appointed members. For more information, refer to Robert's Rules of Order Newly Revised, 10th ed. pp. 466-467" http://www.parlipro.org/faqanswers.htm

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2489

08/23/2008 2:43 PM
Elizabeth, "Ex-officio" means "by virtue of office". It's not uncommon for the board pres. to be an ex officio member of a committee. In some instances an ex officio committee member has the right to make and second motions but doesn't have the right to vote. However, most often the ex officio committee member has the same rights as all the other committee members. If your docs are silent on this, then, IMO, the Pres as an ex officio committee member can vote or not as he/she chooses. Just because the Pres. is an ex officio member of a committee doesn't mean he/she is the chair of the committee. Another important point to keep in mind is that just because the Pres is on the committee as an ex officio member, doesn't mean the committee can now make decisions w/o going through the board. Except for the architectural committee, all other committees submit recommendations to the board and the board makes the final decision.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:768

08/23/2008 3:05 PM
Mary, What do you mean by," Except for the architectural committee, all other committees submit recommendations to the board and the board makes the final decision." Why the exception? That is clearly not the case in every homeowners association.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2316

08/23/2008 3:06 PM
Your bylaws or other documents should have defined what powers this "ex-officio" wields. I have heard horror stories of ex-officos holding the Board hostage.

ElizabethB1
(Arkansas)

Posts:43

08/23/2008 3:34 PM
Thanks all! I can't imagine that this "guidelines" committee will need to really vote on anything. I guess I'm trying to try to be prepared in the event it does come up. Of course, our docs mentioned nothing as to the ex-officio serving as a chair just that s/he is a member. In your opinion is it wise to allow the prez, as an ex-officio, to be a chair or co-chair of any committee? Again this "guidelines" committee is not making rules only suggestions that the board will vote on. Perhaps I just overly concerned that the president's presence on this committee may is so way hamper the committee from doing its due diligence in research (the prez. has a "reputation" for not wanting to spend money on improvements).

ElizabethB1
(Arkansas)

Posts:43

08/23/2008 3:35 PM
Thanks all! I can't imagine that this "guidelines" committee will need to really vote on anything. I guess I'm trying to try to be prepared in the event it does come up. Of course, our docs mentioned nothing as to the ex-officio serving as a chair just that s/he is a member. In your opinion is it wise to allow the prez, as an ex-officio, to be a chair or co-chair of any committee? Again this "guidelines" committee is not making rules only suggestions that the board will vote on. Perhaps I just overly concerned that the president's presence on this committee may is so way hamper the committee from doing its due diligence in research (the prez. has a "reputation" for not wanting to spend money on improvements-even on her own house).

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/23/2008 7:08 PM
First a quote: Without exception, ex-officio members of boards and committees have exactly the same rights and privileges as do all other members, including, of course, the right to vote. There are, however, two instances in which ex-officio members are not counted in determining the number required for a quorum or in determining whether or not a quorum is present. These two instances are: 1. In the case of the president, whenever the bylaws provide that the president shall be an ex-officio member of all committees (except the nominating committee); ... (http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html#2) Now as for the president who doesn't want to spend any money on improvements, why was he elected president?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2489

08/24/2008 3:47 AM
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 08/23/2008 3:05 PM Mary, What do you mean by," Except for the architectural committee, all other committees submit recommendations to the board and the board makes the final decision." Why the exception? That is clearly not the case in every homeowners association. I'm sure it's not the case in EVERY HOA; however, IMO, it is the procedure for many, if not most. Generally the A/C is set up as a committee with more powers than most committees. They can adopt, amend and repeal rules for their committee. Their decisions are final except that appeals are heard by the BOD. Does your A/C have to obtain board approval b/4 making any decisions? IMO, this could delay the approval process quite a bit, especially when there are time constraints on when approval must be made.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:768

08/24/2008 6:07 AM
I think you are way overstating the case. Unless you have specific verifiable data (and can cite your sources) you should not be making blanket statements. It is misleading.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

08/24/2008 7:03 AM
I don't understand why more boards don't empower more of their committees to make decisions. Yes, there need to be checks, but get for real. As an example, if you have a social committee it would seem reasonable to set a budget and let them run the show. If you have a landscape committee the same should be done. If you have a board member regularly attend the committee meetings you can prevent them from going to far astray. Have them get out and get feedback from the neighborhood regarding what they want to do.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:768

08/24/2008 7:11 AM
Posted By KirkW1 on 08/24/2008 7:03 AM I don't understand why more boards don't empower more of their committees to make decisions. Yes, there need to be checks, but get for real. As an example, if you have a social committee it would seem reasonable to set a budget and let them run the show. If you have a landscape committee the same should be done. If you have a board member regularly attend the committee meetings you can prevent them from going to far astray. Have them get out and get feedback from the neighborhood regarding what they want to do. Kirk, You are getting very close to my way of thinking here. We have such outmoded, literally 17th century, notion of how a membership association is run. It causes all sorts of problems. Governing a homeowners association in the same way we govern a country club doesn't work. And the more recent attempt to govern a homeowners association using a city council/commission model is even worse. I am wholly in favor of a policy governance model as the most effective way to govern a homeowners association. And it has the advantage of encouraging participation.

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