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Subject: Non payment of dues

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DianeJ1
(California)

Posts:1

07/24/2008 11:59 AM
How do we handle non-payment of HOA dues when a unit is being rented and we do not know how to contact the owner of the unit?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2853

07/24/2008 12:07 PM
Why don't you know how to contact the owner? That is very bad business practice for your HOA. The property tax dept will have an address for tax purposes. If they don't, it might end up on an auction for the city or county if the taxes go unpaid. Call your local property tax dept.or go on the internet to find the owners information.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:460

07/24/2008 12:12 PM
You should be able to look up the owner and their address in the county records. They will have that info for tax purposes. You then send your payment notices to that address, even if it is the address of the unit. It is the owner's responsibility to keep the records up to date. After that you just follow the same procedures that you would follow for any other delinquent account, including filing liens and foreclosing on those liens if necessary.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/24/2008 12:54 PM
What they said...it is fairly easy to get that info.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2183

07/24/2008 2:21 PM
One JOB of the secretary (along with the treasurer) is to maintain an accurate, up to date list of names and address of ALL members. The fact that you "don't know how to contact" one of your members is troubling. Get your records up to date! With the economy the way it is, you need to update records constantly.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2259

07/24/2008 2:29 PM
Posted By SusanW1 on 07/24/2008 2:21 PM One JOB of the secretary (along with the treasurer) is to maintain an accurate, up to date list of names and address of ALL members. The fact that you "don't know how to contact" one of your members is troubling. Get your records up to date! With the economy the way it is, you need to update records constantly. I agree, Susan, this is very troubling. However, all the fault does not lie with the board. If the member doesn't inform the board of their correct mailing address what are they to do -- fine them? Even if they have a "renter policy" in effect which states the h/o must do this, doesn't mean all will abide. I know h/o's who rent out their homes and are required to inform the Co they are renting their home but they don't. People don't always do as they're required to do. Having said that, if the board knows the home is being rented they can surely find the owner's name through the CO. tax records. However, in AZ you must have the parcel number to do the research. Don't know if the Co. recorder will give out any info to anyone calling w/o having the parcel number. Of course the renters surely know the address of the party they are renting from!

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

07/24/2008 2:37 PM
If all else fails, simply ask the renter where he/she sends the check. Then send your bill there. Failing that, you start foreclosure on the property. Your documents should let you pass on the expenses to the owner. If the owner doesn't show up, then eventually you sell the property to a new owner at auction. You should ensure your association is there to bid the amount owed. If it goes for more, that is fine. Your attorney is stuck finding where to send the funds left after your expenses.

HB
(Oregon)

Posts:9

07/24/2008 3:40 PM
We had one homeowner who failed to update his address with the management company and the dues went unpaid for two several before racking up some considerable fees for mailing/etc. It went to an attorney and a lien has been placed against the home. Don't be afraid to do your job, even if the homeowner comes up with all kinds of excuses as to why they didn't keep you updated with their current address. That is the responsibility of the homeowner and you should not need to figure out where to send anything.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2159

07/24/2008 3:59 PM
To all HOA, I know it is a big order and a bigger job to maintain, but good advice would be to know the addresses of all your owners. HOA or condo, the owner is responsible to the association for certain requirements and Current name and address is one of the and if the association is small enough, there may be a requirement of the same information on the tenenants and people residing in the unit. If an HOA is spread out over 5200 acres of ranchettes in Coloroda is one thing but if an HOA encompasses 3 square block of detached homes that may be something else, especially behind a security gate.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:460

07/24/2008 5:29 PM
We have one homeowner who moved out and started renting to his ex-wife. She was supposed to pay the dues and handle any notices from the HOA, so he didn't think it was necessary to give us his new address. She is now gone and he is trying to make arrangements to get the dues paid along with all the late fees and collection costs. I feel for the guy, but renting to an ex (without a signed lease no less) and having her handle all HOA issues was probably not the best idea.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

07/24/2008 9:43 PM
Robert, the State of Ohio wrote it into the law for condos. 5311.09 Unit owners association records. (A) (1) The unit owners association shall keep all of the following: (a) Correct and complete books and records of account that specify the receipts and expenditures relating to the common elements and other common receipts and expenses ; (b) Records showing the allocation, distribution, and collection of the common profits, losses, and expenses among and from the unit owners; (c) Minutes of the meetings of the association and the board of directors; (d) Records of the names and addresses of the unit owners and their respective undivided interests in the common elements. (2) Within thirty days after a unit owner obtains a condominium ownership interest, the unit owner shall provide the following information in writing to the unit owners association through the board of directors: (a) The home address, home and business mailing addresses, and the home and business telephone numbers of the unit owner and all occupants of the unit; (b) The name, business address, and business telephone number of any person who manages the owner’s unit as an agent of that owner. (3) Within thirty days after a change in any information that division (A)(2) of this section requires, a unit owner shall notify the association, through the board of directors, in writing of the change. When the board of directors requests, a unit owner shall verify or update the information. (B) (1) When elected members of a board of directors of a unit owners association take control of the association, the declarant or developer shall deliver to the board correct and complete copies of all of the following: (a) The books, records, and minutes referred to in division (A) of this section; (b) The declaration, the bylaws, the drawings prepared pursuant to section 5311.07 of the Revised Code, as recorded, and any articles of incorporation of the unit owners association, as recorded; (c) Except in the case of a conversion condominium, documents, information, and sources of information concerning the location of underground utility lines, and plans and specifications that are not proprietary or copyrighted, of the buildings, other improvements, and structures of the condominium property that are reasonably available to the developer, but only in connection with condominium developments declared on or after the effective date of this amendment and condominium developments that are declared prior to that date but originally built or constructed on or after that date. (2) The board of directors may commence a civil action on behalf of the unit owners association in the court of common pleas of the county in which the condominium property is located to obtain injunctive relief or recover damages for harm resulting from the declarant’s or developer’s failure to comply with division (B)(1) of this section. Effective Date: 07-20-2004

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

07/25/2008 12:41 PM
Kirk's suggestion is fine IF the property is free and clear. I suspect most rental properties are not. Therefore, there would be primary lien(s) in front of the HOAs. Good luck getting enough to cover those liens and yours too. Filing first to recover your lien(s) does not move it to the front of the pack.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

07/25/2008 12:56 PM
The talk of keeping an updated record of ownership is all great and wonderful. But the simple fact is that an owner can move and not bother to notify the HOA. And the HOA is NOT at fault should a homeowner choose to do this. So lets get off the backs of the secretary and treasure. As I said, if I were looking for the owner, my fist step would be to simply ask the renter where the rent check goes. I suspect that this will give you a location that works most of the time. If were to fail, then I would be inclined to let an attorney do a title search.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

07/27/2008 1:34 PM
Diane, Check what address is registered for receipt of tax bills.

GeorgerwilliamsW
(Indiana)

Posts:707

07/27/2008 2:21 PM
It really needs to be the owner's responsibility to keep the association updated with changes of address. I like the Ohio law in this regard. We have public internet access to property records which makes it easy to find both ownership information for any real estate parcel and the address to which tax bills are sent.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2259

07/27/2008 3:25 PM
Posted By GeorgerwilliamsW on 07/27/2008 2:21 PM It really needs to be the owner's responsibility to keep the association updated with changes of address. I like the Ohio law in this regard. We have public internet access to property records which makes it easy to find both ownership information for any real estate parcel and the address to which tax bills are sent. George, Our Co. recorder has a website also, however, you must have the parcel number to search. There is an option to search by street # and street name or by owner's name and street name; however, it doesn't work! So the HOA really must rely on the property owner to notify them of any change in address. As to the OH law; yeah, it sounds really good, but how is it enforced? What happens if the prop. owner doesn't follow the law? There are many, many property owners who decide to rent their property and do not notify the co. assessor (the tax rate is different for rentals - almost double!) or the city (Glendale requires a business license if you rent your property). Many are never caught!

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1722

07/27/2008 3:31 PM
Mary, just out of curiosity, how does your HOA NOT have a record of the parcel numbers? Our development list contains the parcel ID number as well as the Lot number AND the address. That is 3 separate identifying numbers for a single parcel of land, any of which we can locate the deed holder on through a Property Valuation Roles (property tax roles) search. In addition, while it's more of a pain in the toockus, we can take the address down to the county deed room and look up the owner (and the legal contact address) for free.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2159

07/27/2008 4:25 PM
To all, I think this subject also opens a can of worms. Be you HOA or condo, the association needs accurate records. Tax rates were mentioned that is motivation to some to not want their address public. Since I am aware of some requirements for owners that rent property in condos, where does the Board involvement begin and stop. Plenty of condos in the past few years have been purchased with a second home condo rider and I would assume the same for HOA except it would be a second home HOA rider. This little trick allows the buyer to get a mortgage at a better rate than listing it as rental property. In a condo second home mortgage, you can not rent the property (generally). Now since the mortagee knows he should not be renting the property, how anxious do you think he is to accumulate lease agreements and records, etc? Does your HOA or condo require a signed lease for each rental? Ours does. And just as easy ignores the requirement because we have a large number of rental properties and they control who does what. For twenty some years it has been this way, how many associations of all kinds are like this? Surely, mine can't be the only one. What does this do to the HOA society if this happens? A lot of stuff and all bad. In undermines the neighborhood society for one thing, it makes record keeping ineffecient, to say the least. It jeprodises and threatens the entire association because there is no control and records of who is living where. It allows for those interested to slip around the tax laws. and Blah, blah, blah.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:131

07/27/2008 4:38 PM
Posted By MaryA1 on 07/27/2008 3:25 PM There is an option to search by street # and street name or by owner's name and street name; however, it doesn't work! I use it often, it works very well. It is very literal though...for instance if the address is 5623 E. Main St. you would enter 5623 in the number field and Main in the street name field. If you enter e. or St. you'll get no matches. We send a certified letter to the property address. Then we initiate the collection process if no response. We don't really spend much resources tracking anybody down.

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2159

07/27/2008 4:48 PM
To all, Just want to say this topic of state internet sites is very important and soon will be a larger issue. I imagine some are good and some bad. But the real problem is that lots of people won't take the time or don't know the drill. I would go so far as to suggest that all who post here, at their next annual meeting raise the issue and see how well utilized this great resource is being handled by your HOA.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2259

07/28/2008 3:07 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 07/27/2008 3:31 PM Mary, just out of curiosity, how does your HOA NOT have a record of the parcel numbers? Our development list contains the parcel ID number as well as the Lot number AND the address. That is 3 separate identifying numbers for a single parcel of land, any of which we can locate the deed holder on through a Property Valuation Roles (property tax roles) search. In addition, while it's more of a pain in the toockus, we can take the address down to the county deed room and look up the owner (and the legal contact address) for free. Michele, It's been a number of years since I was a board member, but your response jogged my memory. As treasurer, I did have the parcel numbers for all the lots. So, yes, the assn should have that info and it would be no problem to get the address from the prop. tax. record.

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