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Subject: Pets allowed for Owners but not renters.

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RosannH
(Florida)

Posts:5

07/07/2008 9:41 AM
Can there be a rule that pets are allowed for owners of a unit but if the owner rents, the renters cannot have pets? This seems discriminatory. If a building or an association allows pets, can the board of only a few change this ruling to only owners having them?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2840

07/07/2008 11:04 AM
Rosann, Do any of your documents---"restrictive covenants or bylaws" have anything written in them about pets? Look at that first and see if there is and if so, please copy or write it and send it to us. Normally the Board of Directors can make rules about pets but they cannot change the intent or words of any higher document aka bylaws or CC&Rs. It is very unwise to seperate the classes of residents between renters and owners when it comes to rules. That becomes an enforcement nightmare and then the games begin. I would strongly advise them not to do so but I am not able to give them a good arguement from here. Good enforcement of the rules is the answer to allowing pets or to not have any at all.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/07/2008 12:03 PM
I would say no, really the tenant is the responsibiity of the landlord, they can have a no pet rule, but in my opinion the HOA couldn't discriminate between the two.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

07/07/2008 12:09 PM
i would agree with brad: there are a hundred threads here where we remind people that the HOA deals with OWNERS, not renters. for the HOA to suddenly try to deal with a renter instead (through a special rule that applies to them only) would be chaos. How do you enforce it? You cannot fine a renter, only the owner.

AnnaD2
(Florida)

Posts:338

07/07/2008 3:12 PM
Everyone here is correct. You cannot make two "classes" of people. When owners rent their units they are giving all of their amenity privledges to the renter. The renters can use the amenities but the owners give up those rights. It's the responsibility of the owner to ensure their renters follow all the rules and regulations of the association. HOWEVER, when owners have their own "rental agreement" THEY can make a provision that their renters cannot have pets in the unit that they own. If the owner doesn't care, then the renter has the same rights as the other residents; and they'd have to follow the same pet rule as everyone else.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

07/07/2008 3:18 PM
Have checked your docs to see what, if anything, is said about renters? If your docs are like ours they don't address this. Of course, the landlord has every right to not rent to people who own pets.

RosannH
(Florida)

Posts:5

07/07/2008 6:54 PM
Donna, Thanks for your reply. I have looked at the By-Laws there is information about pets and allowing them in the building. I will forward tomorrow to you. Thanks...

RosannH
(Florida)

Posts:5

07/07/2008 7:10 PM
Thanks Everyone for your useful information. As I suspected it seems not to be prudent for the board members to make such a discriminatory change. I had a 2 year lease in hand that it got turned down because of a pet. Now the rental market has taken a turn and I will not be getting the same rental number. Nor will I have the opportunity to have such a long lease. CAN I file a suit against the Association and the board members for monetary damages? Thanks!

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

07/07/2008 7:50 PM
IF your codes allow an owner to have a pet, AND, IF the board spoke to you and/or your potential renter and told them they couldn't have a pet, AND, that information was key to their decision to not rent, you might have a case.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

07/07/2008 9:27 PM
Posted By RosannH on 07/07/2008 7:10 PM CAN I file a suit against the Association and the board members for monetary damages? Thanks! Before you threaten the BOD with a lawsuit I would speak with an attorney to see if you do indeed have a case. The rule however discriminatory we all feel it is may indeed be valid; the advice & opinions posted here no matter how well informed and knowledgeable do not qualify as legal advice.

RosannH
(Florida)

Posts:5

07/08/2008 5:26 AM
Thank you for your e-mail. Although I am not out to file suit at the moment, nor do I customarily do so, I first want to move toward getting their ruling changed(for me and the other homeowners). I feel that they have hurt me financially when turning down a valid lease that met with the condominium by-laws of allowing pets. I am using this venue only as a stepping stone, to validate for me personally what is already arguable. I'm a mortgage consultant and having been dealing with leases, condominium by-laws, and agreements of sale for over 22 years. Someone had asked me to forward the by-laws with the pertintant information. I will try to cut and paste today on this site and any comments will be welcomed.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

07/08/2008 5:30 AM
Another thought to bear in mind before you decide to sue. Keep in mind that the cost of defense will be born partially by yourself. (As will a portion of the award.) And while I don't know about your BOD, many have spent insane amounts of money defending themselves even when in the position of no hope. I am not saying to not sue, but consider the whole thing carefully as you may get a whole lot more grief then you bargained for.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2840

07/08/2008 5:44 AM
Roseann, Yes, the very last resort would be going to court over this. Work within the system of your documents and most times, a very stern letter from an attorney will get a Boards attention and they will be willing to relook at what they are doing. I too have lost rentals because of some rather antiquated rules of a Board that is trying to flex their muscles or are way too old and set in their ways to change. I usually have come out with a compromise. It took some work(like becoming Chairman of the Docs Committee) but in the end, what is fair will prevail. You cannot cry over spilled milk, aka the lost renter. When you become a landlord, you are in it for the ride and sometimes it is a bumpy one. For information on Florida Renters Rights to our non Florida posters, it is very difficult to evict renters once they are in because of these laws. There are just 5 valid reasons that you are allowed to remover tenants and Boards or Associations literally have no ability to do so. They can only force owners to remove tenants. This has become a problem when the owners get entrenched and refuse to do so.

RosannH
(Florida)

Posts:5

07/08/2008 6:21 AM
Donna, I agree not to cry over spilled milk! But in a real estate market such as this, with the subprime crash, it seems more intense than just milk. I have been a landlord for a long time and it wasn't that they could not enforce the pet policy with tennants, it was that they turned down the lease from the get go. I asked them nicely in an e-mail to the board to make an exception given these trying times in the rental market and they just said no! I feel they had no right to turn down a lease that they had no jurisdiction in. I feel that they did not want owners that rent their unit to attract renters with pets, since the building is one of the only ones that allow pets in that area. It was only in the interest of a few board members that live there. When decisions of the board effect the livelyhood of owners, it has to stop there, especially when it involves going against the by-laws of the building. My first priority is to get this changed and then to advertise in BOLD letters "pet's allowed" in the MLS. Your attention is much appreciated! Thank you.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/08/2008 7:18 AM
Posted By RosannH on 07/07/2008 7:10 PM Thanks Everyone for your useful information. As I suspected it seems not to be prudent for the board members to make such a discriminatory change. I had a 2 year lease in hand that it got turned down because of a pet. Now the rental market has taken a turn and I will not be getting the same rental number. Nor will I have the opportunity to have such a long lease. CAN I file a suit against the Association and the board members for monetary damages? Thanks! If Owners are allowed to have pets and the HOA step in and blocked a contract that you had with a rentor I would say yes. However, your damages will likely be only the months your home went unrented not the length of the contract you were going to do. If you have haven't been able to find a rentor then I would speak to an attorney. If you went a month or two without rent then I would explore small claims court as an option.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

07/08/2008 11:17 AM
Posted By DonnaS on 07/08/2008 5:44 AM For information on Florida Renters Rights to our non Florida posters, it is very difficult to evict renters once they are in because of these laws. There are just 5 valid reasons that you are allowed to remover tenants and Boards or Associations literally have no ability to do so. They can only force owners to remove tenants. This has become a problem when the owners get entrenched and refuse to do so. Donna since Florida seems to change its HOA statutes yearly, maybe next year you can get them to add something like we have in the Buckeye. The BOD can initiate the eviction proceedings and bill it back to the homeowner. 5311.19 Compliance with deed restrictions, declaration, bylaws and administrative rules and regulations. (A) All unit owners, their tenants, all persons lawfully in possession and control of any part of a condominium property, and the unit owners association of a condominium property shall comply with all covenants, conditions, and restrictions set forth in a deed to which they are subject or in the declaration, the bylaws, or the rules of the unit owners association, as lawfully amended. Violations of those covenants, conditions, or restrictions shall be grounds for the unit owners association or any unit owner to commence a civil action for damages, injunctive relief, or both, and an award of court costs and reasonable attorney’s fees in both types of action. (B)(1) Except as otherwise provided in the declaration or the bylaws, a unit owners association may initiate eviction proceedings, pursuant to Chapters 5321. and 1923. of the Revised Code, to evict a tenant for a violation of division (A) of this section. The action shall be brought by the unit owners association, as the unit owner’s agent, in the name of the unit owner. (2) In addition to any procedures required by Chapters 5321. and 1923. of the Revised Code, the unit owners association shall give the unit owner at least ten days written notice of the intended eviction action. (3) The costs of any eviction action brought pursuant to division (B)(1) of this section, including reasonable attorney’s fees, shall be charged to the unit owner and shall be the subject of a special assessment against the offending unit and made a lien against that unit. Effective Date: 07-20-2004

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