DylannB
(Colorado)
Posts:4
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| 07/05/2008 2:37 PM |
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| Can anyone help or tell me about the HOA limiting the places that children can play??? We have plenty of courtyards and fully grown shade trees for the kids to play around. The board sent out a letter stating that kids could not play in these areas that are located behind,side, or front of our buildings. They want kids to walk across the main street for the complex and play in their designated play area. No trees, no grass, and a block away from my condo. Is that fair and enforceable??? That was the whole reason for me and other parents in purchasing our homes. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2176
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| 07/05/2008 6:35 PM |
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Well, the front, side and back of the buildings are not parks - and it sounds like the Board wants kids to go to this "park" for their extended outside playtime. Get them to fix up the area they want the kids to spend their time.
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 6:26 AM |
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Susan is correct and also hard to understand why this hasn't been changed in the past as she recommends.
Dylan,
Sorry, you are off base. That was not the reason you bought there in the first place, you admittedly knew where the playground areas were when you bought there and I am guessing so did your neighbors. But, Lord, worse things have happened and if you and your friends are of such a mind, you all would not be the first to make some changes along these lines to improve or enlarge or build new play areas for the pleasure and safety of more children. Hope you take hold and get the job done.
If you haven't noticed yet, you are and so are your neighbors and neighbors neighbors, the HOA. |
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JeanneK3
(Maryland)
Posts:129
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| 07/06/2008 6:35 AM |
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| The Federal Fair Housing Act (FHA) which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, national origin, sex or disability was amended in 1988 to include familial status. This means that families with children under 18 years of age are also protected. In 1996, 23% of the discrimination complaints were based on familial status, the third highest category after race and disability. There was a condo in Maryland that wanted to limit where children could play and a complaint to the FHA stopped it. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 6:47 AM |
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JeanneK,
Don't doubt your word for a minute Jeanne. But, unless we know the rest of the story we would be prudent to not suggest the poster get his friends together and take the case to court, better ways to skin the cat.
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DylannB
(Colorado)
Posts:4
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| 07/06/2008 8:56 AM |
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RobertR,
Unfortunately you are wrong about the park. When I moved here 5 years ago, there was not a park just the huge grass areas. The park has been here for about a year. Inside the grass areas are cement areas for BBQs and "four square" ball play. I was told that these areas were for "families".
Thanks,
DB |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 9:27 AM |
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DylannB,
More better for you. If this is a new facility then someone created it and someone is trying to find a suitable use for it. Sort of sounds like your association might just be doing a good job and would welcome help and constructive dialog. Give it a whirl, tell them I sent you. On second thought, better forget the last part. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 07/06/2008 10:14 AM |
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| Dylann is this park part of your complex or did the city happen to build a park across the street? What do your CC&R's say about use and regulation of the common areas? |
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:131
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| 07/06/2008 11:03 AM |
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| What is the general age of the "kids" that play in the courtyard? |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 07/06/2008 1:34 PM |
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Jeannie,
What you stated is a little beyond the authority for the FHA. The areas mentioned are considered common area of a private HOA. It is the Boards responsibility to maintain it as it belongs to all of the owners. I understand why the Board wants to have the kids play in a restricted area. This is not discrimination against kids or families. It sounds like the Board is careing about the lawns and areas. I do agree with Susan that the HOA should provide a play area for kids as long as they do already own the property. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 1:55 PM |
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Donna,
Am I being repetitive to mention that the Board also need volunteers to help form consensus and input into not just play areas but all matters that touch on the lives of the children and youngsters. Sure better to have them happy at home than unhappy away from home.
At my age, I recommend we pen them all up in a big cage until they are ready to join the Marines around 18. Donna made me say that. |
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RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3702
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| 07/06/2008 4:41 PM |
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| Dylann, check your HOA's Declaration of CC&Rs and rules and regulations regarding limiting the places to play. With regard to limiting this to children that is a no no - age discrimination. If there are places where playing is not allowed then it should be for everyone, not just children. |
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Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 4:49 PM |
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Roger,
Have we truly come to: "Age discrimination in the sand box?" |
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JeanneK3
(Maryland)
Posts:129
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| 07/06/2008 5:29 PM |
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Donna S:
What I mentioned was an actual case. I'll get the reference for you if you wish. The fact that it is private property has nothing to do with the end result. Federal law and State law always take precedence over any private regulations. |
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RobertR1
(South Carolina)
Posts:2152
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| 07/06/2008 7:12 PM |
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JeanneK,
Interesting article in our local paper today. (SC) The article dealt with the installation of solor panels on houses or buildings in the county. Our area is like a lot of areas today, in that there are more people living in restricted commuities that "Open" homes in our county. The county planner was quoted as stating the covenants in restricted communities would not allow a blanket ordinance that roof top solar panels have to be allowed. He said these covenants hold sway over any general law by state or county. Now having had some clashes with the attorney general about the state horizontal property act (State Statute for Management of Condos) and at one point his office declared it to be their position the AG office is to be Hands Off as far as enforcement of documents are concerned unless it was a criminal act. To me this doesn't address the whole issue and especially if the Fed come in (and they will) and allow the practice of using Solar panels or any other "Green" innovatation. Now if this happens and it will is the states going to have to come up with an enforcement arm for control and management of "Green Solutions". Now in SC in this instance State Law does not hold trump over Associations covenants. At least that is what the paper says. |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 07/07/2008 6:45 AM |
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| Roger is right, common areas are for the enjoyment of all members of the HOA and children fall in that category. If they want to restrict who enjoys the area it should be an all or nothing, unless it is a huge safety issue. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 07/07/2008 7:55 AM |
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Gosh Robert,
Total new concept. Then I remembered, aren't you a career Navy guy? Me thinks that we need you down there to run the P.T. department and give the kids something to keep them off of the common areas.
Seriously folks, I think that there is something else going on. There are people other than the families living in these courtyards which are in front, along side and behind the buildings. Perhaps there are some residents who do not enjoy the kids being there. These folks have rights too. Maybe the playing is ruining the grass or damaging something.
Jeannie,
Yes, this is private property and FHA can have some say BUT. THIS IS COMMON PROPERTY. THE BOARD HAS THE OBLIGATION TO MAINTAIN AND CONTROL IT"S APPEARANCE and they have the right to say that the kids are not allowed to play there. They are trying to create a place for them. Maybe it isn't nearly as easy to access it as the areas around the buildings but they do have the rights to control the area.
I'll bet someplace in your documents it says what the use of these areas is supposed to be. |
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DonnaS
(Tennessee)
Posts:2833
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| 07/07/2008 9:16 AM |
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DUH!! I pushed "submit" before my brain finished working. The way to eliminate the so called discrimination against the children playing in this area is to just make the rule that the common area is not to be used for recreational purposes. That then will include the adults which would remove any discrimination. As I said above, I'll bet the documents already address this situation. |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1741
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| 07/07/2008 12:14 PM |
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good advice donna: don't focus on the age of the people involved, focus on eliminating the unwanted activity. If you don't want people walking on the grass, say so. Don't say that people aged 16 or less somehow damage it more than those aged 17 or older, etc..
By the way, we should all remember, it is perfectly legal to discriminate against children in many, many situations. you just have to choose the right situations! |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:353
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| 07/07/2008 3:35 PM |
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| Dylan didn't say whether the areas behind, in front of or the side of... are the property of the folks living there or common areas. We don't know enough to offer any sort of advice. |
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EllenS1
(Florida)
Posts:353
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| 07/07/2008 3:44 PM |
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Robert,
There is already age discrimination. I hear that five year olds are not allowed to drive. Seriously, I agree with you..it is time for mom to discuss this with the board and work out something that everyone can live with. It sounds like the family area might be improved if there is enough space, put in some kid things. |
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KirkW1
(Texas)
Posts:1145
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| 07/07/2008 7:26 PM |
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Have you spoken to any of the board members? I would start by finding out why the new rules were put in place and see if there is a better way to get to the same end.
The first line of defense is communication. The last line of defense is communication. If you can't get a dialog going then remember this at the next annual election. It could also help to find out how other owners feel. |
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