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ShawnV
(Florida)

Posts:3

06/23/2008 5:11 PM
i live in a new community(3 years) of 24 homes.out of the 24homes,18 homeowners want to dissolve the hoa for the simple fact that we pay to up keep county retention pond nothing else. 19 homes have liens on them for this reason.what can i(we)do ..thanks for your time

JC3

Posts:290

06/23/2008 5:31 PM
Read your documents very carefully--ccrs and articles of incorportion, and even bylaws. then folllow the information there. Our ccrs apparently give only a portion of the necessary information. The Articles of incorporation had more requirements to be met. Remember, if the docs are prohibitive, you CAN amend them. Just follow the directions to do that. Part of what might be needed is that you find an agency to take over the common areas. You may have to negotiate that retention pond item, for instance, with the county, maybe by agreeing to pay a certain amount for a few years for upkeep.

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2178

06/23/2008 5:34 PM
Your documents should outline what it takes to "dissolve" your HOA Corporation. But if you "own" a retention bay, how are you going to get rid of it? What kind of upkeep did you have to do on a county-owned retention pond? Do you mean tht the county built it, and you maintain it/

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/23/2008 6:17 PM
all you typically have to do is: read your bylaws and articles of incorporation for steps to dissolve. Be prepared to file with the state and feds (irs) your dissolution, when done. And, find someone willing to buy and keep as a retention basin forever and ever, including paying property taxes, with perhaps no property access to, that retention basin you have. In general, those basins are deeded forever to be water retention areas, and cannot be converted into any other usage. Good luck finding someone who wants to own a dry pond/marsh in the middle of your neighborhood.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2840

06/24/2008 6:50 AM
Shawn, Number one!!!! Get an Attorney involved. The 19 homes with liens on them have made this too complicated for laymans advice. You have common property--the retention ponds. Do you not have an entrance or some other area of common ownership? Those ponds are owned by your association but the County does monitor them. They will not take them from you without all kinds of catches. Secondly, Florida Statutes 617, which is your Corporation filing is where you have to read. I have copied just the first part but this is your governing document as to "How To Dissolve" 617.1402 Dissolution of corporation.--A corporation desiring to dissolve and wind up its affairs must adopt a resolution to dissolve in the following manner: (1) If the corporation has members entitled to vote on a resolution to dissolve, and unless the board of directors determines that because of a conflict of interest or other substantial reason it should not make any recommendation, the board of directors must adopt a resolution recommending that the corporation be dissolved and directing that the question of such dissolution be submitted to a vote at a meeting of members entitled to vote thereon, which may be either an annual or special meeting. Written notice stating that the purpose, or one of the purposes, of such meeting is to consider the advisability of dissolving the corporation must be given to each member entitled to vote at such meeting in accordance with the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. A resolution to dissolve the corporation shall be adopted upon receiving at least a majority of the votes which members present at such meeting or represented by proxy are entitled to cast. (2) If the corporation has no members or if its members are not entitled to vote on a resolution to dissolve, the dissolution of the corporation may be authorized at a meeting of the board of directors by a majority vote of the directors then in office. History.--s. 76, ch. 90-179. Copyright © 1995-2008 The Florida Legislature • Privacy Statement • Contact Us

BridgetteC
(Michigan)

Posts:4

06/25/2008 8:20 AM
I would be very careful what you ask for….Retaining ponds can get nasty very quickly, without proper maintenance can become infested with parasites and/or wildlife (muskrats etc..) that are not resident friendly. My concern would be that the County would not put the emphasis on the up keep of the pond as a homeowner/HOA would. Lets face it most developments have "Ponds" which is really storm/sewer water that needs to be treated and maintained to ensure home values are not effected.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/25/2008 11:57 AM
bridgette's point is good, and you can add to that: should the county take over, they can (and likely would) simply assess a special tax/fee on all homes in the area to pay for the upkeep of the ponds, at county pay rates plus overhead. AS long as your county government is more efficient, budget conscious, and practical than your HOA, it can be a cost savings. And we all know that government agencies are very efficient at saving our money and spending wisely.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2840

06/25/2008 12:15 PM
Brian, Since when can pigs fly??? "( And we all know that government agencies are very efficient at saving our money and spending wisely.)"

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/25/2008 1:00 PM
I guess I'm the only one who does think the government can and does operate efficiently on many levels. Sure, we all have our own horror stories, but the fact is that much of government DOES work well, regardless of the myth we've been fed for years on end. Ask any fireman, teacher, policeman, EMS worker, social worker, zoning enforcement officers, military men and women, etc etc etc etc etc There are good and bad areas and good and bad stories, just as there is in the private sector.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

06/25/2008 3:32 PM
Michele any area including the ones you listed where people especially politicians are involved. I can remember from my days as a paramedic that towards the end of the budget year there would be a mad scramble to spend all the money in the budget for the year. It didn't matter if it was for things you didn't necessarily want or need because if you didn't spend all you were allocated your budget would be cut for the next year and some other department would get "your" funds.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/25/2008 5:57 PM
Hey Michele... FEMA TSA Patriot Act DOD need i continue?

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

06/25/2008 6:51 PM
Well I don't know Brian, AirForce One seems to be well run.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

06/25/2008 8:27 PM
I believe that would be the exception that proves the rule.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/25/2008 8:33 PM
Well, DJ, the fact that the government can only run ONE of them should be a clue. Otherwise, it would be AirForceSeveral....

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/25/2008 9:23 PM
The PATRIOT ACT is a policy, not an agency. However, the FBI is another excellent government agency that works pretty well. And I think FEMA was an AWESOME agency for many many years, until it was purposely set up to fail in the last 8. Same with the DoD. I still feel that the myth exists, and that "the gubbment" is pathetic at anything is a falsehood we like to believe because it makes a great sound bite, we can all nod and grumble, and bond in our bogus misery. For every stupid thing one can bring up government-related ($700 hammers), I can bring up just as many, or more, from the private sector. The fact is, MOST of government works and works well. The parts that don't simply need to be fixed, not simply done away with. It still amazes me that for $.42 I can send the same letter to my neighbor next door, or to my great aunt in Massachusetts. And Glen, I worked in a privately owned company for 2 decades where all our departments did the EXACT same thing come budget time. One year the department where I worked bought 6 crates of cotton balls. We were an adult beverage company, and this was the wine marketing department. We needed to spend up to our budget or loose it. I have no idea HOW they managed to "justify" cotton balls. But they did. We ended up donating the cotton balls to a local treatment center. It has nothing to do with whether it was a government agency/department, it's the nature of "budgets," regardless of whether it's the public or private sector.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/25/2008 9:28 PM
Anyway, I apologize to the OP for hijacking the thread.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

06/25/2008 9:59 PM
Michele that’s ok I think he got his question answered. I'll agree that not every person who works for a government agency is bad or out to defraud the taxpayer but enough are to make it a problem requiring eternal vigilance. The sad fact is that Government is not designed to be run efficiently and that most of the vast amounts of money the government collects to do these things disappear into administering the money instead of where it is truly needed, I've heard different figures ranging from 55-75%. And while I think the FBI for the most part does an excellent job don't forget Ruby Ridge or Waco.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1710

06/25/2008 10:16 PM
But my point is, neither is the private sector (designed to be run efficiently). When people are involved, regardless of the entity they are "running," there are always issues. But as far as I'm concerned, I think our government does a he** of a job handling most of the things its responsible for. The CDC, the FDA, garbage collection (in some cities), so much of our daily life is dependent upon the fact that the people working in government DO do a great job. Heck, the U.S. Postal Service processes 38 million address changes each year. 38 million. Nothing should ever be left to run unattended, or lacking in accountability, but for the bulk of what the government "is" and what it "provides," it really does, on the whole, do a pretty darn good job. After all, with the way people speak so anecdotaly about the government, one would expect a "Ruby Ridge" or "Waco" every other month! Is ANY degree of failure acceptable? The reality is, when people are involved, government-run or not, there will be screw ups. And those are what we remember and talk about. They may process 38 million address changes each year, but we won't even think about that until ours gets screwed up. And then, Dam* Post Office! Can't get ANYTHING Right!! So again, taken on the whole, we've got quite a decent amount that our government does right.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

06/26/2008 5:32 AM
BrianB, I understood there are backup planes to AirForce1 and the designation only applies to whichever plane the Prez is on at the time. So I guess there is an AirForce2 and so on. To the OP, it sounds like you have 75% which depending on your docs may allow you to dissolve but that wouldn't necessarily remove the debt to which the liens apply and anyone remaining might still be able to enforce that debt against a property.

ShawnV
(Florida)

Posts:3

06/26/2008 5:33 AM
thanks for the help..really appreciate it.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1377

06/26/2008 9:25 AM
DJ while each set of CC&R's is different all of the documents I've ever seen requires 100% to dissolve the HOA, 75% is usually the threshold for amending the documents.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:456

06/26/2008 9:58 AM
Ammendment #1: change the dissolve requirement to 75% Ammendment #2: dissolve the HOA. Ok, it probably wouldn't last 5 seconds in court, but it just seemed like the "obvious" solution to Glen's restriction.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1145

06/26/2008 10:17 AM
I guess I'm the only one who does think the government can and does operate efficiently on many levels. I think you are the only one. As for the military man, my brother is a career soldier and would never claim the Army is an example of efficiency. And I certainly didn't feel it was when I was in th Army either. What I have learned over the years is that the bigger the organization, the less efficient it will become. And by the way, I don't believe for an instant that the FBI is an exception to that rule.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

06/26/2008 11:04 AM
The easiest way to get rid of an HOA is to sell your home and buy in a non HOA area. Otherwise good luck, HOA's have a purpose and trying to abolish or get out of one is very difficult at best.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2840

06/26/2008 12:43 PM
Brad, I'm with you on this. If you don't like it, then move. You had the choice before so make another choice. Live with it or get out.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1742

06/26/2008 4:15 PM
Just to add fuel to the fire, i HAVE to point out: 1) The post office is NOT a federal government agency. technically, it is a quasi-governmental agency. 2) The FBI? The same agency run by cross dessing J Edgar Hoover and his files on unamerican activities? the same agency that hunted "commies" in the 50's and 60's and ruined thousands of lives based on witch hunt hearsay? the same agency that ignored a letter from an agent telling them almost exactly about the 9/11 attacks before they occured? The same agency that is now run by the DHS, which also include the TSA? The same FBI that allowed Aldrich Ames and others to sell secrets for decades undetected? The same FBI that ordered telecommunications companies to violate federal law? of course, in all fairness to Michele, i actually agree with her: ANY organization is prone to such failures and idiocracy, from Walmart to the government. the government is just such an easy target.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

06/26/2008 5:21 PM
Posted By GlenL on 06/26/2008 9:25 AM DJ while each set of CC&R's is different all of the documents I've ever seen requires 100% to dissolve the HOA, 75% is usually the threshold for amending the documents. Only 75% required here.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

06/26/2008 5:23 PM
Posted By DonnaS on 06/26/2008 12:43 PM Brad, I'm with you on this. If you don't like it, then move. You had the choice before so make another choice. Live with it or get out. Donna, 18 out of 24 'want' to get rid of the HOA. Hmmm.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:353

06/26/2008 5:33 PM
DJ1, I wonder how many of the 18 that want to get rid of the HOA will like it when after the HOA is dissolved will like it when everyone does their own thing...rusty old cars, people making all sorts of changes to the exteriors of their homes that insult their own taste, owners who could care less about the exterior of their homes by not repairing them, garbage cans left out for weeks, owners who do not keep their lawns mowed and I could go on. The HOA assessment is well worth it.

DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:456

06/26/2008 5:54 PM
Posted By EllenS1 on 06/26/2008 5:33 PM DJ1, I wonder how many of the 18 that want to get rid of the HOA will like it when after the HOA is dissolved will like it when everyone does their own thing...rusty old cars, people making all sorts of changes to the exteriors of their homes that insult their own taste, owners who could care less about the exterior of their homes by not repairing them, garbage cans left out for weeks, owners who do not keep their lawns mowed and I could go on. The HOA assessment is well worth it. Ellen, fearmongering and scare tactics. What happened to the sage advice often offered here to 'get involved if you want change'? You don't know how humourous your statement is in light of what goes on in the HOA I'm surrounded by. CCR's for boats, parking, unauthorized landscaping and home changes but the 'violations' are from the HOA members. Does it bother me? Not at all. The 'border' of a HOA only goes so far and any of those things can and do happen both inside and outside a HOA. My property value isn't any lower...wish it was cause then the taxes would be lower too!

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