DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:456
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| 06/18/2008 8:23 AM |
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Like many of you, we have a number of homes that are in various stages of foreclosure or bankruptcy proceedings. Many of these houses are sitting empty with few prospects of being occupied in the coming months. Meanwhile, the landscaping on several of them is being neglected. We have tried to get the bank (attorney, executor, whoever is currently managing the place) to take care of them, but some of them just are not interested in dealing with that right now. We can go through our standard process of sending reminder letters followed by demand letters and ultimately going to court, but that will take more time and meanwhile the landscaping gets worse. Our CC&Rs do state that we have the right to maintain the landscaping and charge it back to the property, but as has been stated in this forum several times it would not be wise to do that without either the owner's permission or a court order. We are starting to ask for that permission, and if we get it then we'll see if we can find some volunteers to at least mow the lawn every week. I don't think the HOA should pay for the upkeep otherwise we'll have every homeowner in the neighborhood wanting us to take care of their yard also.
So how are you handling this sort of situation?
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/18/2008 8:46 AM |
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Dwight:
Just handled this...we used our city which has an ordinance. They sent the bank a letter, the bank must have hired someone to mow the property cause it was taken care of in a couple of days. The city has the power to go in and mow it and charge it to the property as a tax, so we let them do the work for us. |
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:456
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| 06/18/2008 8:52 AM |
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I'll have to check on that, but I don't think our city will do anything until it gets to ridiculous proportions (grass taller than the fence). I think we would prefer not to wait that long if we can avoid it. It is worth checking into though. Thanks for the suggestion.
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:456
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| 06/18/2008 8:57 AM |
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BTW: I should state that most banks and/or managers do make sure that their properties are taken care of. But there are a couple who are either swamped or just don't care. Our biggest problem property right now is in the middle of a bankruptcy and the attorney handling it is only interested in resolving the bankruptcy issues and doesn't care about property maintenance.
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1742
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| 06/18/2008 9:52 AM |
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it can't hurt to remind the mortgage holders that any fines, etc. generated for violations of the codes (lawns and weeds, etc.) will be assessed, and that they WILL be paid before the house can be sold. It is in the best interest of the banks, etc. to be diligent. After all, they got a bad deal sitting in their laps, it isn't going to help them recoup their money to have a lien (if you can lien for fines) or a nasty letter to the potential buyer.
Of course, one problem is that your fines better be more than the cost to mow: otherwise, it is cheaper to not mow, and just pay the fines at the end. |
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KemberlyM
(South Carolina)
Posts:1
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| 06/18/2008 10:15 AM |
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| We have had this problem several times and, if a call to the bank and/or attorney does not resolve it quickly, we place a call to our City's Code Enforcement and they handle the problem. We have found that many codes are in line with our C&R, so using the City as a resource can be an efficient way to solve problems. Many cities have their codes online in PDF format at the City's website. |
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DwightT
(Idaho)
Posts:456
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| 06/18/2008 10:18 AM |
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| Unfortunately we don't have fines. We can only levy a limited assessment to recover actual costs (certified mailing fees, attorney fees, etc) associated with bringing the member / property into compliance. The ones who don't seem to care about the property don't seem to be too concerned with these assessments either. I guess they figure that whoever ends up buying the property will pay them in order to get a clear title in exchange for the low price of the property. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 06/18/2008 10:54 AM |
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Dwight you need to get your city to pass an ordinance like Canton, OH did. The registered owner of a property who does not maintain their lots can now be sent to jail over it.
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/47477/view/topic/Default.aspx
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CaroleJ
(Georgia)
Posts:32
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| 06/18/2008 4:31 PM |
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Posted By GlenL on 06/18/2008 10:54 AM
Dwight you need to get your city to pass an ordinance like Canton, OH did. The registered owner of a property who does not maintain their lots can now be sent to jail over it.
http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/47477/view/topic/Default.aspx
How does a bank get sent to jail? Seriously.
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 06/18/2008 5:01 PM |
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| Well I suppose it would be an officer of the corporation; or maybe the teller with the least seniority. |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/19/2008 7:57 AM |
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Posted By GlenL on 06/18/2008 5:01 PM
Well I suppose it would be an officer of the corporation; or maybe the teller with the least seniority.
Glen:
My veiwpoint on that law is that it wasn't very well thought out. America as a whole has a problem with jail overcrowding so now they want to send people to jail for not mowing their lawn? As someone said in a foreclosure how do you pick which bank member goes to jail? Can you even legally do that?
I like the way our city handles it, we get a notice with 10 days to correct, if we don't they mow and bill us. If we don't pay then it is added as a tax lien to our property. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 06/19/2008 9:01 AM |
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Brad I didn't propose or enact the law, I just reported it. As I understand the city got tired of fronting money they didn't have, even though they could eventually recoup it with a tax lien. I know a lot of cities and counties let inmates work off time by performing work like picking up trash alongside roads. Perhaps they could put these miscreants to work mowing affected properties.
BTW If an officer of a corporation, in this case a bank makes a conscious decision to violate the law in order to save the corporation money (granted it doesn't rise to the level of say Enron) why should they be exempt from punishment?
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/19/2008 11:28 AM |
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| What if the officer isn't local? Are they going to travel three states to pick him up and go through extradition? |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 06/19/2008 1:24 PM |
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| Brad perhaps you didn't understand the first line of my last post: "I didn't propose or enact the law"; nor am I an attorney. For the answer to that and any other question regarding the law should be directed to the city of Canton, OH. I even looked up the URL for you: http://www.ci.canton.oh.us/ |
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/19/2008 1:32 PM |
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| I saw that and understood, never said you were behind...those were more rhetorical questions. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2248
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| 06/19/2008 2:23 PM |
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Glen,
I live in Glendale, AZ and our city code dept has the same authority. However, I doubt they go that far very often, or even if they ever have. Perhaps if you did a little research you'd find the same applies to Canton. Arrest is the last resort to get a citizen to comply with a code violation notice. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1375
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| 06/19/2008 3:08 PM |
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| Indeed Mary just as raising money is not the intended purpose of being able to fine. I would much rather have someone comply to a first violation notice and be done with it. Unfortunately there are some that would rather spend their hard earned money or time "on principal" even when it can be pointed out in black and white where they are wrong. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2248
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| 06/20/2008 10:24 AM |
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Glen,
I agree. I know a gal who lost around 1 Million on a lawsuit against her HOA; plus she almost lost her home and several other homes she owned in the same assn. All as a matter of principle -- "I know I'm right and you're wrong!" Lots of people do lots of stupid things!
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." Albert Einstein |
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GloriaM
(North Carolina)
Posts:778
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| 06/21/2008 11:09 AM |
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Dwight:
For each of our communities we have implemented different options, they are as follows:
1. We got the teens in 1 community to be involved, by mowing once a month of the few homes that are abandoned and pay a smaller fee than we would to a landscaper.
2. We placed in our budget a line item Lawn Mowing and use it when the grass is really in need. We don't do weekly mowing or weeding, just enough to keep the community looking good.
3. We wait until the bank or HUD takes Title, then if we do any mowing the bank has to pay the fee when it sells the home, therefore we back bill the invoice onto the account.
4. We formed a community task force of concerned HO's that go and mow the abandoned homes as volunteers.
As the old adage goes; it takes a village to rise a child! It takes concerned citizens to make change, they have to get involved. |
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Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
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