BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/14/2008 1:04 PM |
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Hello everyone........I'm new to this site & I'm hoping it's going to help our community with some of the questions that we are having with our board.
Each year our board okays an annual yard sale. Three years ago, we had someone drive up on our lawn & break a spinkler head. Two years ago this woman drove head on into our mailbox breaking the decoration part in half. The rule is that all mailboxes be the same but has never been enforced until now. Seeing that it was a yard sale okayed by the board & they put the ad in the news paper to tell everyone about it, are they not responsible for our mailbox being "different" now?
Thanks
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1674
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| 06/14/2008 1:12 PM |
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No, they are not responsible for the mailbox being different.
If, however, you know the woman who ran over it, which it appears you might, I would focus my energy in obtaining recompense from her for the cost of a new mailbox.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/14/2008 5:47 PM |
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Yeap our security system got her but it's been 2 years now.
We didn't press it at the time because it was just the bottom of the decoration that was broken. We actually felt sorry for the woman because there is no way she should have hit our mail box. We're at the every end of a cul-de-sac. How do you not notice that a street ends?
The president only seems to try & enforce the CCR's & By- Laws when someone questions the board.
I questioned them on why they never let the neighborhood know of the meeting dates so that we could attend if we wanted to.
That was the wrong thing to do.
Thanks for your help.
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1674
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| 06/14/2008 6:10 PM |
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No.
It appears the wrong thing to do was to not repair your broken mailbox for 2 years.
Perhaps next time it won't take so long?
For the record, we have a gentleman in our HOA who thinks the board is "out to get him," (my quotes, not yours).
He claims because he questioned certain things of the board that now we are targeting him.
The big flaw in that logic is that he was out of compliance on several issues for quite some time. The board was unaware of them until his neighbors couldn't take it any more. So they contacted us about those issues, one of them being a bobcat stored in his backyard. The construction, yard-grading machine, not the animal.
And so we began the process of enforcement against him.
He claims that we are trying to make him get rid of it because he "questioned" why the same people keep getting elected.
Then he called us a nazi regime. (on our forums)
Then he said he was being harassed. (on our forums)
Then he accused us of selective enforcement. (on our forums)
Then he accused us of turning him in "every week" to our local zoning compliance officers. (on our forums)
It's sort of funny, in a pathetic kind of way. He "THINKS" he's being "anonymous," (he posts as someone who "knows" him but isn't him) however, the forum has a "hidden" column that the webmaster can see that shows the actual email and IP address of the poster.
Next week he gets the letter from the attorney who is moving to file an injunction against the various CC&R infractions.
He should have just removed the bobcat.
You probably should have just fixed the mailbox.
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2114
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| 06/14/2008 7:34 PM |
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| Why do you think the HOa is responsible? Just becasue they OK'ed a community wide yard sale does not mean that it is responsible for the people who drive on the roads. That could have happened at any time. See if your homeowner's insurance will reimburse you (but I doubt it) |
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/14/2008 8:38 PM |
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We tried to fix it but it kept dropping off. The board didn't know where we could buy another & at the time they also put in a letter that we did not have to get another one since this perticular mailbox was no longer available.
A little history about our neighborhood......
None of us went to the meetings, we just always paid our dues, no questions asked. We had a special assessment every year for the first 5 years, each were done by ballot vote & each one passed. Then in 2004 ballots were put in our mail boxes on a Thursday night & we were to have them in the vice presidents mail box by that Saturday on a special assessment vote to do landscaping to help build up the berms so the houses on the main street side would be more hidden. When the management company was contacted on that following Monday to let them know that over 35 residents never got their ballot in time to vote for whatever the reasons, the management company informed us that it didn't matter because the special assessment passed.
That was strange since the special assessment was to do landscaping on residents personal property not common areas & in order for this to have passed they needed 75% of the total membership to vote for it. The board at the time was trying to do it with a 50% vote on votes received.
That is when residents started to pay attention. We found out that minutes had never been taken since the HOA had been taken over from the builder, all the special assessments that had passed for 5 years, no record on any of them.
2005 a whole new board was voted in. They fired the management company & found a new one. One evening in August my husband & I came home & noticed that our gas lights at the neighborhood entrance were out. The following morning I called the gas company, only to find out that the gas bill had not been paid in 3 months. When I called the board to inform them, they didn't know what was going on but would find out.
We pay our dues semi-annually. The president had gotten a call from the police in Feb. 2005 because this management co. had stollen dues from a couple of diff. sub-divisions & they wanted to warn us. The board spoke to this management co. because of this warning & were told that it was just a big misunderstanding....In June we send in our second half of the annual dues.
Well guess what ..... this wonderful managent co took all our dues & went to another bank to open an account with it.
The board never made sure that this managent co. was bonded. They never told the membership until it came out in the newspaper. They knew all this was going on because the police called in Feb. They had called around & found out our electric & insurance bills had not been paid. They never told the membership. We could have at least saved the second half of our dues had they acted.
Our dues were raised & we had to do a special assessment in order to pay our bills.
2006 again, new board, this board promises to communicate with the neighborhood & everything will be up front & center.
Guess who the first one was that was out of compliance with a car in thier drive way with no tags on it for several months? The president.
When she was called on it, her answer was " So fine me. I don't care"
but turns right around & has someone else fined for having their boat in their driveway.
Our board meets once a month on a Monday because we are self managed now.
When I asked about going to meetings, I was told I would have to send an e-mail to find out the date & time. I never got a reply until the day after the meeting, saying Sorry but they just opened the e-mail.
Another resident wanted to go to a meeting & they were told they could only stay for 30 mins. & then they had to leave.
When there's more than a couple of residents wanting to attend a meeting the meeting is always cancelled & changed to another week & day other than a Monday.
Oh one more thing,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the annual meeting for the voting on the new board etc,,,,,,was always in June. There was always a good turn out.
It's been changed to December, when it's very hard for most of us to go....... there's a very low turnout in December & it's usually the boards family members that go. It's in the minutes. They do take them now. |
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1674
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| 06/14/2008 8:42 PM |
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It seems to me it's time again to put in another board.
Shouldn't be too hard of an argument to make given the history.
I'm truly sorry for your'all's bad experiences. Perhaps some ethical people will step up to the plate and turn it around for everyone.
Good luck to you.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/14/2008 8:55 PM |
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We did try to fix it but it never stayed.
At the time the mail box was not available anymore. The board told us not to worry about it since it wasn't too bad, in a letter.
Now there's a company that has these mail boxes again & the board is now trying to say that we, along with 5 other residents in the same situation have to get a new one.
They say the letter we have is null & void.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/14/2008 8:58 PM |
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Thanks.
The problem is getting people to run.
So many residents are just fed up with everything or don't have the time to put into it.
Thanks for your help
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BradP
(Kansas)
Posts:1742
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| 06/14/2008 9:19 PM |
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using the analogy that the HOA is responsible would be the same as the following:
1) I had to go to work and got into an accident, either my employer or the employer of the person who hit me is at fault.
2) I had tickets to watch a baseball game and got into an accident, therefore the baseball team is responsible for issuing tickets and inviting me out.
The HOA is not at fault... |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1731
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| 06/14/2008 10:17 PM |
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it seems to me, as more of this story leaks out, that a previous board said "Hey, since no one makes that mailbox style anymore, we won't force you to do the impossible, and replace the broken one."
But now that a company DOES make the style again, a new board is saying "Hey, now that they make a mailbox that matches, go ahead and please get it replaced, so you are in compliance with the rules."
Is that a fair description of the situation? |
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BrianB
(California)
Posts:1731
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| 06/14/2008 10:23 PM |
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Posted By BradP on 06/14/2008 9:19 PM
using the analogy that the HOA is responsible would be the same as the following:
1) I had to go to work and got into an accident, either my employer or the employer of the person who hit me is at fault.
2) I had tickets to watch a baseball game and got into an accident, therefore the baseball team is responsible for issuing tickets and inviting me out.
The HOA is not at fault...
although i don't disagree with you Brad, as a work comp "case manager" in California, your first example all depends on where the accident occurred, where you were going to work from, and a few more specifics about your contract with your employer (like, are you hourly or exempt?).
Remember, California is the state that just had to pay workman's compensation for a police officer who broke his ankle while jogging on vacation in Wyoming, because the court deemed that being "physically fit" was a requirement for the officer's job, and thus, anything he did, anywhere in the world, in pursuit of that requirement was work related. Technically, he was injured on the job while on vacation enjoying a personal activity.
nothing surprises me anymore.
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TonyM3
(Arizona)
Posts:131
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| 06/14/2008 10:57 PM |
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Does the hoa own the roads? I'm thinking if the driver was there on HOA business or as it's guest (ie the yard sale) than the HOA should be held somewhat liable. At a ballgame even though you are there at your own risk as per the ticket, if you get hurt at least the team will administer medical aid at their cost. If I were her neighbor and my guest did the damage I would feel ultimately responsible to make it right.
The h/o wasn't in violation until the association's guest damaged her property. If the driver doesn't pay I think the burden falls to the HOA to make the corrections. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2156
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| 06/15/2008 7:41 AM |
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Posted By TonyM3 on 06/14/2008 10:57 PM
Does the hoa own the roads? I'm thinking if the driver was there on HOA business or as it's guest (ie the yard sale) than the HOA should be held somewhat liable. At a ballgame even though you are there at your own risk as per the ticket, if you get hurt at least the team will administer medical aid at their cost. If I were her neighbor and my guest did the damage I would feel ultimately responsible to make it right.
The h/o wasn't in violation until the association's guest damaged her property. If the driver doesn't pay I think the burden falls to the HOA to make the corrections.
Tony,
Excuse me, but I think your analogy of the situation is a bit skewed. Just because the HOA advertised the yard sale (as a courtesy to the members who wanted to participate), doesn't mean anyone coming to the yard sale is a "guest" of the assn. However, if that were the case, if I come to your yard sale, that you've advertised in the local newspaper, and hit your neighbor's mailbox while trying to park in front of your home, are you responsible for replacing your neighbor's mailbox? Or, what if I crashed into another vehicle in front of your house and caused bodily harm to someone. Are you liable for my accident? Afterall, I'm your "guest". Hope you can see now why your thoughts just would never hold up in court.
Bottom line: the HOA is in no way at fault here. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2156
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| 06/15/2008 7:48 AM |
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Posted By BijouxF on 06/14/2008 8:55 PM
We did try to fix it but it never stayed.
At the time the mail box was not available anymore. The board told us not to worry about it since it wasn't too bad, in a letter.
Now there's a company that has these mail boxes again & the board is now trying to say that we, along with 5 other residents in the same situation have to get a new one.
They say the letter we have is null & void.
Bijoux,
Because the board informed you that you did not have to replace the mailbox because it was no longer available, doesn't mean they cannot require that it be replaced now that it is available. The reason they say their initial letter is "null & void" is because the reason given for not needing to replace the mailbox is no longer accurate. Is there a reason why you would rather have a broken mailbox sitting in front of your home, than a new one? |
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/15/2008 8:18 AM |
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Yes, you are correct.
We have no problem with replacing it as long as the others have to do the same.
The rules are for everyone & not on whether you are a friend of the "court" or not. More than 2 of the board are out of compliance. When I first asked the question I wasn't going to get into all the dirty laundry pertaining to our neighborhood. I thought it would be an easy yes or no answer. I'm glad I did because it has made me see things in different ways, which is why I went on to more of our history.
This is a great site & I'm going to give it out to the other residents during our meeting this week.
So thank you all so very much.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/15/2008 8:25 AM |
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No our roads are state maintained.
However, we don't ever have these problems until there is an annual yard sale.
All our streets are cul-de-sacs, so there's no reason for the speeding & mail boxes being hit.
UPS & Fed Ex have never hit anything when they come in & thier vehicles are much larger than the ones coming in for the yard sale.
It's as if once someone sees a yard that's has something to sell, the drivers coming in have blinders on & don't realize that the road ends & there's a mail box there.
They develope tunnel vision I guess.
Thank you for your help.
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2156
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| 06/15/2008 8:31 AM |
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Posted By BijouxF on 06/15/2008 8:18 AM
Yes, you are correct.
We have no problem with replacing it as long as the others have to do the same.
The rules are for everyone & not on whether you are a friend of the "court" or not. More than 2 of the board are out of compliance. When I first asked the question I wasn't going to get into all the dirty laundry pertaining to our neighborhood. I thought it would be an easy yes or no answer. I'm glad I did because it has made me see things in different ways, which is why I went on to more of our history.
This is a great site & I'm going to give it out to the other residents during our meeting this week.
So thank you all so very much.
Bijoux,
I'm glad you see the value of this site! It's amazing how others can look at the same situation and see a different solution. I've always been one to value a different point of view; it can certainly put a different perspective on the problem at hand.
Good luck,
Mary
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MicheleD
(Kentucky)
Posts:1674
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| 06/15/2008 11:31 AM |
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Posted By BijouxF on 06/14/2008 8:55 PM
We did try to fix it but it never stayed.
At the time the mail box was not available anymore. The board told us not to worry about it since it wasn't too bad, in a letter.
Now there's a company that has these mail boxes again & the board is now trying to say that we, along with 5 other residents in the same situation have to get a new one.
They say the letter we have is null & void.
Okay, Bijoux, which is it?
Either you are the only one being made to get the new box, as you claimed in one response, or all 5 are, like you mentioned above.
I think you are being disingenuous with us.
I'm sure you're a little more than miffed that now a new supplier is available you have to get it fixed.
It's the right thing to do, whether other people are out of compliance or not.
You're not responsible for other members, only yourself.
Just get it fixed.
Simple enough.
and regardless of all the silly scenarios some people want to use, the HOA is not responsible for your box being broken by someone who attended a yard sale.
Nice try, though, guys. But an argument about nothing.
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1361
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| 06/15/2008 1:46 PM |
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| The person responsible for paying is the one who actually hit it but good luck getting her to pay up after two years. Replace the mailbox and be done with it. |
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/15/2008 6:11 PM |
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Let me go back ..................
We were the ones that contacted the board when it first happened.
They put in a letter not to worry about it. At that time 2 residents already had totally different mail boxes due to the prior years yard sales.
Since we got hit, 2 others have had the same thing happen.
There is one other neighbor that has a different mail box also but that was due to their neighbors drunk teenage son driving into it. That is the only time other than the yard sales that someone's mail box has been hit.
I'd forgotten about him. I did count it though.
So far we are the only ones that have gotten a notice by the board. |
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SusanW1
(Michigan)
Posts:2114
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| 06/15/2008 6:15 PM |
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Either you board can't make up its mind or you have misinterpreted their instructions. Ask - no demand - that they put directions to you IN WRITING as to what to do about this situation. Make them accountable to the situation.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/15/2008 6:43 PM |
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Susan
That is part of the problem with our board. They sent a letter to all residents that if we need to get in touch with them that we can only use a certain e-mail set up just for the residents to get in touch with them.
We are not allowed to call their homes or e-mail them on their personal e-mail addresses.
I sent them an e-mail asking a question 2 weeks ago to this "special" e-mail address & have yet to receive a reply.
I have in the past sent a certified letter. It stayed in the HOA PO box for over 3 weeks & I never recieved a reply. The only reason I know they received it was because I finally got the return receipt.
It showed 3 different dates that the PO put a notice in the HOA box.
I'm just really tired of the whole thing.
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1361
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| 06/16/2008 8:35 AM |
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Bijoux first of all how do you KNOW that the others didn't receive a notice? Just because they say to you that they didn't receive a notice doesn't mean the Association is not acting. Enforcement actions are supposed to be a private matter between the HOA and the homeowner UNLESS the H/O makes it public. The only way the HOA would be remotely responsible to pay for your mailbox is if they sponsored a "Break your neighbor's mailbox day." When the mailbox was first damaged and replacement wasn't possible they gave you a pass; now the box is available and they want it replaced so it meets the covenants you agreed to when you moved in.
Now you can whine and complain about the unfairness of it all you want but eventually they will begin enforcement action which will probably cost you more in the long run than if you'd just replaced the box in the first place. As my momma used to say: "Don't cut your nose off to spite your face."
And after you replace your mailbox if the others our not replaced in a reasonable time frame then you have every right to insist the BOD enforce on those H/O's as well.
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/16/2008 9:45 AM |
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Glen
If you read all of my entries you will see what I said about willing to replace our mail box. I have responded to others questions & got in deeper to explain the situation.
I believe the residents that I have talked with.
The history of our board is not good at all, which is probably why I received a call this morning asking if we wanted to come to a meeting of concerned residents about the board.
Thank you
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:437
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| 06/16/2008 10:03 AM |
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Bijoux,
I agree with others that the cost of replacement of your mailbox is, or should have been, handled with the driver who hit it.
But this leads me to another issue for you (or other correspondents): Why is the HOA (Board?) "approving" yard/garage sales, as in, what business is it of theirs?
Our HOs have a joint one once every couple of years, and some HOs just have their own, personal ones, but they're always organized w/o Board input, or financing. |
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GlenL
(Ohio)
Posts:1361
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| 06/16/2008 10:30 AM |
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| John I can't speak to Bijoux's Association but I do know that in years past we have had homeowners approach the BOD about yard sales because our CC&R's like many other's prohibit signs on the common elements without the BOD's approval. |
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MaryA1
(Arizona)
Posts:2156
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| 06/16/2008 10:40 AM |
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Posted By JohnK3 on 06/16/2008 10:03 AM
Bijoux,
I agree with others that the cost of replacement of your mailbox is, or should have been, handled with the driver who hit it.
But this leads me to another issue for you (or other correspondents): Why is the HOA (Board?) "approving" yard/garage sales, as in, what business is it of theirs?
Our HOs have a joint one once every couple of years, and some HOs just have their own, personal ones, but they're always organized w/o Board input, or financing.
John,
Our HOA has a yard sale twice a year. Any homeowner who wants to participate just puts all their "junk" on their driveway on the appointed days. The HOA sets the date (same month each year), does the advertising and puts up the signs. All the HOA's in the area where I live do the same. I think the reasoning behind this is they don't want individual h/o's having yard sales on a regular basis, so the HOA organizes one for a specific date twice a year. These organized yard sales are known throughout the valley; people come from all around. Frankly, I think it's a good idea. |
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BijouxF
(North Carolina)
Posts:25
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| 06/16/2008 11:01 AM |
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John
Our board has done this for at least the past 7-8 years.
There's a better turn out when it's done as a community.
We can do individual yard sales also. Can't put up any signs but you can put an ad in the paper & tell the people to look for ballons tied to the .......of all things, The Mail Box.
Maybe for the next yard sale my husband & I will put ballons on our mail box to make sure that it's seen. We'll just have to make sure that we have some stuff to put out for someone to buy.
We're not against the yard sales at all. |
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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:437
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| 06/16/2008 11:15 AM |
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Bijoux,
Makes sense if it works best that way.
Glen,
Lemme explore this a bit more, as our CCRs also have a pretty strict rule against signs on Common Property. Under our CCRs, no changes are permitted w/o a majority of HOs approving same. We also have, in our ByLaws, under Board Powers and Duties: “…(and) may do such other things and acts not inconsistent with the Act, Declarations or these ByLaws which the Executive Board may be authorized to do by a resolution of the Association.”
Our Board took our operations self-managed this year. We’re still iffy about exactly what we can or cannot do by ourselves, except as to the specific powers granted. This presents a good example, as in, Do What Makes Sense for the enjoyment of Membership, or Dot Every “I” before acting?
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