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Subject: Exterior Additions

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JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

05/15/2008 6:53 AM
Exterior- noun, a part or surface that is outside. Addition- noun, something added, as a room to a bldg My question is: A permit is required for an exterior addition which I am in agreement with, BUT closing in a garage, according to our Admin. is considered an exterior addition and will charge a $250 fee. I asked why because the garage is already "closed" in. There is no "adding" to it. It's already there. I was told because "you're adding extra living space" and that's why they charge a fee. I call BS. The HOA has no authority over what goes on inside my home, including the garage. We are not required to get permits to re-paint our house, landscape, anything that changes the appearance of the outside. We are single homes and we own all that is on it. So trading a garage door for windows and some brick is not an exterior addition IMO. I did change my chain link fence to a privacy fence and did have to get a permit but was charged no fee, so what's the difference?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

05/15/2008 7:52 AM
Jan. I would not call this an addition per say but you are physically changing the outside materials from a temporary medium to a permanent one. This in my ARC is considered an addition, even tho the footprint will remain the same. You are adding square footage to the living space, therefore tax wise this is an addition to your living space. Sorry. Do you not have garage requirements in your developement? If you do, I bet that you would come into a violation by removing your garage.

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

05/15/2008 8:22 AM
What does taxes have to do with it? There are no garage requirements. Some have garages, others have carports, some have neither, some have both. I live in a "mixed" community meaning we have site built homes, manufactured homes and a camper/RV sections. We all pay the same assessment amount. This HOA has insisted on ppl improving their homes but have increased fees on a yearly basis making it difficult for ppl to do improvements. I just don't understand paying a fee for turning a "storage" area to a "living" area. The space remains, just what goes in it changes.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:568

05/15/2008 8:30 AM
Slightly off-topic, if a garage is being turned into living space, check with your local authorities re: requirements as to light, heating, etc.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

05/15/2008 8:34 AM
Jan, "What does this have to do with taxes?" Does Texas not have property appraisers? The next time that your County or Town does Property Tax appraisals, you will find out this addition has to do with it. It is a taxable living space. In your defense, I think that the $250.00 is quite high for what you are proposing to do but the good news is that you are following the proper procedure so the ARC won't come back to give you trouble.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:696

05/15/2008 8:53 AM
We only have Jan's "spin" on things. We don't have Jan's actual documents to look at and help to interpret. Views could change if we learned more.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

05/15/2008 9:38 AM
Jan, I remembered that you will also need a building permit from your County or Town because you will have electrical work in there. That permit will tell you what they consider the structure to be after the alterations. We require a copy of the building permit on file with the ARC approval for my association.

JohnB7
(South Carolina)

Posts:63

05/15/2008 9:42 AM
You are changing: USE EGRESS OCCUPANCY You will need to make the changed area CURRENT code compliance in ALL aspects. If it is an attached garage you are 'converting' you may need to bring the ENTIRE HOUSE up to existing code.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

05/15/2008 11:26 AM
Posted By JanM on 05/15/2008 6:53 AM Exterior- noun, a part or surface that is outside. Addition- noun, something added, as a room to a bldg My question is: A permit is required for an exterior addition which I am in agreement with, BUT closing in a garage, according to our Admin. is considered an exterior addition and will charge a $250 fee. I asked why because the garage is already "closed" in. There is no "adding" to it. It's already there. I was told because "you're adding extra living space" and that's why they charge a fee. I call BS. The HOA has no authority over what goes on inside my home, including the garage. We are not required to get permits to re-paint our house, landscape, anything that changes the appearance of the outside. We are single homes and we own all that is on it. So trading a garage door for windows and some brick is not an exterior addition IMO. I did change my chain link fence to a privacy fence and did have to get a permit but was charged no fee, so what's the difference? taken at face value: If your garage had a typical garage door, and you built an interior wall inside that door, and left the garage door in place, I agree with you. Nothing exterior was done/added. If you touch the garage door, and replace it with a wall, window, new doorway, etc., then I believe you "added" something to the exterior of your home (a new wall, door, window, etc.) and need a permit from the HOA/ARC.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2505

05/15/2008 11:38 AM
Jan, THe rule that applies usually says "anything that changes the outside appearance of your property." So, as Brian says, if you are changing the outside appearance of the garage then, Yes, you would need to go through the A/C committee and get their approval. I think charging a fee is preposterous, but I know some assn's do this -- but $250 sounds awfully high for this type of change. I can see charging that amount for building a house but not for such a simple request that would not require any time on the part of the A/C committee. When you put in your request all you have to do is indicate the change to the outside of the garage, i.e. replace garage door with window. The A/C doesn't have to know what you're doing inside the garage!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

05/15/2008 12:10 PM
Mary, Jan said "So trading a garage door for windows and some brick is not an exterior addition IMO. " You said "garage, i.e. replace garage door with window. I think that Jan is going to brick the area where the garage door now sits, with brick and windows. That sounds to me like she is changing the purpose of that part of her structure. She will not have a garage door but a brick wall. NO GARAGE which means that the space is being used for another purpose--living space. This is now a different area than it was originally permitted for. Jan also trivialized what she is doing to the wall. "some brick" is a structural change IMHO.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2505

05/15/2008 12:34 PM
Donna, In my neighborhood most homes have a 3-car garage. The third bay has its own door and some h/o's opted to have this area as a den. So instead of putting on a garage door, the builder installed a window, a little more brick was added and the interior was finished. I see nothing different in Jan's situation. What matter does it make that the space will be used for a different purpose? The only thing that matters is that the outside appearance will change and that should be the only concern of the A/C committee.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1470

05/15/2008 1:09 PM
Did you ask the BOD/ACC why there is a fee for this but not for your fence? They are the only ones who can ultimately answer why there is a charge. Have you applied for a building permit if required in your location? It's not a simple matter of bricking in the garage door and adding a walkthrough door and window. Building and fire codes must be met before the conversion can be used as living space.

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

05/16/2008 6:30 AM
Applying for the permit is not my issue, charging $250 and labeling it as an exterior addition is my issue. I looked up our permit fees. To build an actual garage, seperate or attached, is $200, which I think is fair. We do not have to apply for a county or town permit. We are a small town, complete with square, in a small county south of DFW. I already have electrical outlets and ceiling outlets so no electrical work will need to be done. Bldg and fire codes only apply to new construction. You don't get charged a permit fee for replacement such as a fence or roof because it already exists, the appearance just changes, which IMO, is the same as changing the appearance of an approx. 8x8 opening. Brian, the thought has crossed my mind to build a sub-wall behind the garage door. I already have windows on the side and a back door. I am not currently remodeling but this is something I plan to do in the near future. I am temporarily on the ACC til we have our elections this August. I ran across this when I was approving someone else's permit to do the same thing and asked about the fee. Our fees are outrageous ($1700 to build a house)only because our Pres can't get a dues increase so he raises everything else. And yes, I know that being on the ACC, I can try to change this and believe me I will.

BruceF1
(Connecticut)

Posts:696

05/16/2008 9:10 AM
JanM, You said: "only because our Pres can't get a dues increase so he raises everything else." How does the president get to decide this? Doesn't this require a vote of the board?

JanM
(Texas)

Posts:142

05/17/2008 9:09 AM
Yes that's the funny thing here, only SOME of the fees are presented at the BOD, such as new constrution. The previous head of the ACC raised others w/o bringing it to a vote or even letting some of the other ACC commitee members know about it.

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