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Subject: More on pools and a question about garden walls

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CharlesH9
(Michigan)

Posts:78

07/30/2008 4:01 AM
Here is the clause from the declaration: An owner may not build any outbuildings, above ground swimming pools and garden walls on a lot. Now my questions? What about kiddie pools and the "blow up" kind that are about 3' tall and stay up? The kiddie pools are left up to. We have about 5 in the neighborhood that stay out and my neighbor would like one of the bigger ones, but she doesn't think they are allowed. I personally might want one, but they scare me to leave staying in the yard for fear some child will drown. So I'm willing to skip that worry. What is a garden wall? Is it the same as a retaining wall? Several (more the 15%) of the HO's have these wall things built that are filled with soil and landscaping. I see them sold in ads as garden or retaining walls, are they? Thanks

SusanW1
(Michigan)

Posts:2116

07/30/2008 5:37 AM
I think you are talking about arbors. They can give the illusion of garden "walls" in that they allow the plants to climb up and fill in the screen. A real "wall" would be permanent. It's 2008 - when were your CCRs written? Encourage your Board to go over all CCRs and make sure they are relevant. Maybe they need an addendum that gives definitions to some of these words, i.e. "above ground pool." RE: the kiddie pools. This is a real sticky subject. The idea that large bodies of water are left open is scarey to me. Every week we see that some child has climbed the walls and drown. Your Board needs to either put some teeth in its rules or insist on fences around any open container of water. Good luck; difficult subject on the pools.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2791

07/30/2008 6:30 AM
Charles, Your local code enforcement needs to be called. Ask them about the pools because there are codes about protective fencing. Getting these air filled pink monsters all over the neighborhood ,they becomes an eyesor but when they small enough, they really aren't that obtrusive. Once they reach a certain size, they become "semi permanent" because of the amount of water that they contain and then have to fall under code restrictions. Garden walls down in Florida are brick, stucco or other permanent walls that seperate one area from another like in the case of common walls keeping some privacy between units or structures.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

07/30/2008 7:43 AM
I have heard of a community nearby who has made the requirement that pools under a certain number of gallons can be used on the condition that they be drained and turned over when not in use. If they are up for more than 24 hours with water in them, the homeowners get a notice. I haven't seen the wording, this just came up in a workshop earlier this year and one of the participants shared this is how they handle it.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

07/30/2008 7:45 AM
. . . now that I'm remembering this, I THINK they said the Rule called them "conditionally" allowed and specified the conditions were: not up for longer than 24 hours at a time and must be emptied and turned over daily. Or something to that effect. But they stressed the "conditionally allowed" part. Then provided the "conditions" under which they could be allowed.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1731

07/30/2008 9:31 AM
just to toss a wrench, but it is often quoted that HOA's exist to protect the investements people have in their homes, to maintain property values, etc.. Regulating pools based on the safety of them, the fear of drowning, etc. doesn't seem to be part and parcel of protecting property values... Is maintaining safety and health regulations of property owners also part of an HOA's charter?

CharlesH9
(Michigan)

Posts:78

07/30/2008 11:10 AM
I think know what an arbor is. These are masonry blocks that are slightly curved, stacked and filled with soil for bushes, shrubs, floweres etc. I have heard them called retaining and garden walls. In the ads for Lowe's and Home Depot they are called retaining walls. The CCR's were written in 2004, so they're not that old.

CharlesH9
(Michigan)

Posts:78

07/30/2008 11:12 AM
As for the pools, I don't care particularly about the pools and I am not advocating that we try to protect(safety) the property it was just my personal fear of leaving a pool of water to sit day after day. I would imagine each homeowner will have their own insurannce. I was just wondering what "build an above ground pool" meant in the CCR's. I could certainly see using it for a day and emptying it, but some sit day after day filled with water screaming for an accident.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:437

07/30/2008 11:16 AM
Aren't above-ground pools those huge, round monsterosities? As opposed to an in-ground pool that's...wel, in the ground.

CharlesH9
(Michigan)

Posts:78

07/30/2008 12:08 PM
Yes, in ground pools are allowed and have to be fenced in according to the municipality rules/laws. But the kind I am talking about you can buy at Wal-mart etc. and usually just stay up for the summer. Also the kiddie pools could be drained daily if the owner wanted to.

JeanneK3
(Maryland)

Posts:129

07/30/2008 1:15 PM
Kiddie pools should be emptied at the end of each day to stop mosquitoes from breeding as well as for safety.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

07/30/2008 2:16 PM
Posted By BrianB on 07/30/2008 9:31 AM just to toss a wrench, but it is often quoted that HOA's exist to protect the investements people have in their homes, to maintain property values, etc.. Regulating pools based on the safety of them, the fear of drowning, etc. doesn't seem to be part and parcel of protecting property values... Is maintaining safety and health regulations of property owners also part of an HOA's charter? I've not heard anywhere (at least in our community) that the reason for not allowing above-ground pools is for safety/health reasons. For our area it most certainly is appearance and eyesore. The minute an above-ground pool is built, it begins to deteriorate. I know. I've owned several over the years. And every above-ground pool we ever owned was from the more "upscale" end of the above-ground pool spectrum. But the fact is, they are large, bulky, often intrusive and definitely ugly looking structures that can't be hidden with any amount of "landscaping." Even well-kept ones can become an eyesore in minimal time. Then, usually, the homeowners want decks around them, and up goes the deck from he!!. Once the season is over, they aren't even "decorated" with sleek, shiny, buffed, near-nekkid hard bodies anymore, they're covered with all sorts of various "winter covers" held down with a variety of common household items tied to ropes hanging off the edges: such as water- or sand-filled milk or orange juice cartons, concrete blocks, kids' bikes (yes, we even saw one with a kids bike holding the winter cover down). And if you are really unlucky, every one of your neighbors will get one, meaning when you go out to your patio to enjoy your "view," you're looking at 4 or 5 different sizes and colors of essential giant tuna cans plopped in your neighbors back yards. Even if they are "strategically placed" behind a "privacy fence," the above-ground pool often appears to tower above the sight line. At least with an in-ground pool, there is no line-of-sight issues blocking, or rather In Your Face, as you try to enjoy your back yard. In the winter, when an in-ground is covered, it essentially "disappears."

ChrisB4
(West Virginia)

Posts:175

08/01/2008 5:46 PM
Posted By CharlesH9 on 07/30/2008 4:01 AM Here is the clause from the declaration: An owner may not build any outbuildings, above ground swimming pools and garden walls on a lot. Now my questions? What about kiddie pools and the "blow up" kind that are about 3' tall and stay up? The kiddie pools are left up to. We have about 5 in the neighborhood that stay out and my neighbor would like one of the bigger ones, but she doesn't think they are allowed. I personally might want one, but they scare me to leave staying in the yard for fear some child will drown. So I'm willing to skip that worry. What is a garden wall? Is it the same as a retaining wall? Several (more the 15%) of the HO's have these wall things built that are filled with soil and landscaping. I see them sold in ads as garden or retaining walls, are they? Thanks Our solution on the pool problem was to define what a "swimming pool" is. We simply added a provision for wading pools. Below is a draft of a proposal to be included as a precedent set as allow within our communities CC&R's. Date precedent was adopted July 26th Members present: President: Vice president: Treasure Secretary Member at Large Provision passed: Unanimously Issue: Above ground pools Considerations: The Board felt the provision in the CC&Rs, Article, X Section 10 (that outline pools) The majority of the Board felt this provision was not intended to prevent the use of small wading pools for children. The decision to allow commonly found inflatable or plastic or other pools made of similar material would be allowed with the following restrictions below. Restrictions It was unanimously agreed that pools of approximately 60sq ft or round pools of approximately 8’ diameter with a depth of approximately 20” would be the largest size allowed under the modified provision. Also, the instillation of a pool would require no that modification of the surrounding landscape, digging or filling, be required to accommodate a wading pool. The pool should not have mechanical filtration included with it and should not be placed in a manner that when it’s emptied will run off into any adjacent property. Wading pools shall be allowed from Memorial Day to Labor Day. Any wading pool must be maintained in a condition that permits wading and should only be filled with water. Homeowners will be responsible for repairing any damage that a pool of this type might cause to their property as quickly as possible. Wading pools will not be allowed to sit and collect debris of any type must be kept clean and any wading pool left outside should be in a condition that is consistent with its use as a wading pool. A complaint filed against a homeowner that violates any of the provisions above will be given reasonable time to correct the issue or if action is not taken to correct issues in a reasonable time stipulated in our by-laws under exterior maintenance, may at the discretion of the Board of directors loose the privilege of the use of the wading pool provision for the rest of the existing season. The homeowner will also be subject to fines as is outlined in the by-laws Article X section X if they fail to comply

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