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Subject: NO Correspondence from Board.. Only Letter of correction!

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TammyO3

Posts:0

05/11/2008 4:52 AM
I am speaking on behalf of a neighbor here. He approached me yesterday almost in tears asking when our results for our election will be posted. I told him according to past meetings usually the day of our meeting we usually have results ( for our exexutive session ) but legally results are to be posted in a public area within 15 days. He disclosed the following which I can attest too as I was at that month's meeting! Pat told me that he and his life partner attended a meeting as they wished to add a HOA approved storage unit in the garage. I was at the meeting and I have a copy of the meeting minutes where the president said it's ok but there are specs to follow as the new build should look like the rest of the units. The treasurer stated he would get back to him with a good handy man who could provide them with the info. That was in November of 07. Pat asked the treasurer several times after the meeting to get the number and any specs to him. ( IT NEVER HAPPENED!) PAT CALLED the management company and never got the results he wished for. no specs, no handyman... this was over the course of the last 5 months. Pat took it upon himself to hire a handman and had a unit built that looks identical to those around it. They even painted it white like the rest. NOW... HERE IS THE KICKER. Pat just got a letter of correction from our current board stating that his unit is 2 inches too high according to the specs and needst to be fixed asap! I told him I have the minutes from November to prove he asked for help. I also have the consecutive minutes showing NO follow up from the board. I told him he needs to contact his personal atty for advisement and I also suggested legal action as this is not the only time I have seen this current bunch haphazardly control things... adivce? ( yes... there is specs to the units listed in our bylaws.... yet, Pat stated he asked for this and never got a copy) ( he is a new homeowner due to the recent death of a family member... so , he never did get a copy of the cc&r's or bylaws)

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1221

05/11/2008 6:38 AM
Why didn't he ask you for them? I'm sorry but the he didn't have the CC&R's is a lame excuse, why didn't he ask for them? Go online and copy them from the county recorders office? And do you know for a fact that he was not given the specs? Did he fill out an ACC request?

TammyO3

Posts:0

05/11/2008 8:54 AM
He did fill out a request.. and got nothing in response. The hoa also admits they did not respond....

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1221

05/11/2008 10:04 AM
Then depending on what's in your documents it may have been tacitly approved. A lot of documents require an answer by X number of days or it is approved by default.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/12/2008 1:46 PM
Posted By TammyO3 on 05/11/2008 8:54 AM He did fill out a request.. and got nothing in response. The hoa also admits they did not respond.... Tammy: If this is the case and he formally filed a paper request for the building and submitted it and didn't get a response, then the building should be approved if he built it exactly as he asked for on his request. In most associations the Board or the ARC has a finite amount of time to respond to requests or they are automatically approved, our association has 30 days. Read your docs, if this is the case then the boards correction letter means nothing. I kind of got the hint that maybe you feel he is being discriminated against or ignored because of his lifestyle choice, I certainly hope that is not the case.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1444

05/12/2008 1:50 PM
Our Association does NOT contain such wording (if no response in XX days then project is approved). Nor does several of the others in our area. If a homeowner built without getting a final signed approval, then we would move to have the structure removed if it did not conform to the specifications of such a project (fence, shed, etc.). If the owner continues to get no response from one board member, then it would have been prudent to try to contact another board member. I agree that a resident should not HAVE to do that, but if he wants his project approved in our HOA, he would not be able to begin without that portion of the loop being closed (final sign off from ARch Committee).

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/12/2008 1:55 PM
Michele: Out of curiousity, if the person submits a request should we reasonably expect them to continue to harass the board for an answer? At what point does the burden of responsibility fall to the board or the ARC? I think in this case if it was stated at several board meetings and a request has been filed the homeowner has fulfilled their responsibility to the association, the negligence on the part of the association should not punish the homeowner.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1221

05/12/2008 4:35 PM
Tammy the devil is as they say in the details. Just because it looks the same it evidently wasn't the same and needs to be brought into compliance. I would also notify the BOD that they must follow the law and provide a timely response to all requests. CA Civil Code §1378. Architectural Approval Requirements (a) This section applies if an association's governing documents require association approval before an owner of a separate interest may make a physical change to the owner's separate interest or to the common area. In reviewing and approving or disapproving a proposed change, the association shall satisfy the following requirements: (1) The association shall provide a fair, reasonable, and expeditious procedure for making its decision. The procedure shall be included in the association's governing documents. The procedure shall provide for prompt deadlines. The procedure shall state the maximum time for response to an application or a request for reconsideration by the board of directors. (2) A decision on a proposed change shall be made in good faith and may not be unreasonable, arbitrary, or capricious. (3) Notwithstanding a contrary provision of the governing documents, a decision on a proposed change may not violate any governing provision of law, including, but not limited to, the Fair Employment and Housing Act (Part 2.8 (commencing with Section 12900) of Division 3 of Title 2 of the Government Code), or a building code or other applicable law governing land use or public safety. (4) A decision on a proposed change shall be in writing. If a proposed change is disapproved, the written decision shall include both an explanation of why the proposed change is disapproved and a description of the procedure for reconsideration of the decision by the board of directors. (5) If a proposed change is disapproved, the applicant is entitled to reconsideration by the board of directors of the association that made the decision, at an open meeting of the board. This paragraph does not require reconsideration of a decision that is made by the board of directors or a body that has the same membership as the board of directors, at a meeting that satisfies the requirements of Section 1363.05. Reconsideration by the board does not constitute dispute resolution within the meaning of Section 1363.820. (b) Nothing in this section authorizes a physical change to the common area in a manner that is inconsistent with an association's governing documents, unless the change is required by law. (c) An association shall annually provide its members with notice of any requirements for association approval of physical changes to property. The notice shall describe the types of changes that require association approval and shall include a copy of the procedure used to review and approve or disapprove a proposed change.

TammyO3

Posts:0

05/12/2008 6:07 PM
I kind of got the hint that maybe you feel he is being discriminated against or ignored because of his lifestyle choice, I certainly hope that is not the case. >>>>>>>>> I would like not to think so as our BOD president is also of that Unmentioned lifestyle..... so.. that is unlikely.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1591

05/12/2008 6:33 PM
i would make sure the neighbor understood glen's post inside and out, and then beat the board over the head with it. the devil is in the details, and it sounds like the board isn't following state requirements. second, i would simply recommend that the neighbor add about two inches of dirt around his shed/building, gently slope it up to the base for nice drainage, then take a tape measure, measuring from the "ground", and show that his building is indeed within height limits. What was once 72 inches high is magically 69.5 inches after some landscaping.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1444

05/12/2008 7:50 PM
Posted By BradP on 05/12/2008 1:55 PM Michele: Out of curiousity, if the person submits a request should we reasonably expect them to continue to harass the board for an answer? At what point does the burden of responsibility fall to the board or the ARC? I think in this case if it was stated at several board meetings and a request has been filed the homeowner has fulfilled their responsibility to the association, the negligence on the part of the association should not punish the homeowner. If there is no answer, you can't build. Period. You can't just go ahead and say , "oh, they never said 'no.'" and then embark on something you didn't receive the proper permission for. The burden is always on the board or Arch Committee, in my opinion. And, yeah, I would continue to "harass" until I got either a "yes" or "no" reply for my project. How many board members are there? Are they all sequestered in dark caves somewhere? Are their names and contact information kept secret? We're not talking a remote government agency here, we're talking neighbors in our own subdivision. You don't have to catch the A Train and stand in some government line for hours to find them. If the entire board AND the Arch Committee refused to "process" an architectural request, or provide any reply regarding same, then it would seem to me there are some larger issues going on than someone simply dropping the ball. But it's quite clear if the language says you must have permission to build, and there is NO language that defaults to an "approval" if no reply is given by a certain number of days, then you can't do the project. It's the same as a "no." Some HOAs have apparently addressed that issue by building in a clause that puts the board and the ARC on notice, "if no reply in XX days, then approval is automatically granted." However, what I'm saying is that there are far fewer HOAs around here that have that stop-gap. And if you were to try to argue that you figured you could just go ahead after getting no answer, then you would lose that argument, based on the way the docs are written. Is that crappy? Yea. I'm not at all saying a board who does that is behaving properly. But not getting an answer is not a "get out of trouble/approval process free" card, either. UNLESS YOU KNOW FOR SURE YOUR DOCS HAVE THAT CLAUSE IN THEM. Otherwise, I'll be camping on their front doorsteps until a reply is given.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/12/2008 7:53 PM
Michele: I guess you and I will disagree, I don't feel the homeowner has the responsibility to continually harass the board for an answer. I think there is a point where the board or the ARC has to take responsibility if they are continually ignoring the homeowner and their duties.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1444

05/12/2008 7:57 PM
Posted By BradP on 05/12/2008 7:53 PM Michele: I think there is a point where the board or the ARC has to take responsibility if they are continually ignoring the homeowner and their duties. Yes, we will agree on that, however, two wrongs don't make a right, either. If your docs don't indicate that no response = approval, and they DO require that projects receive approvals BEFORE construction, then the homeowner has his hands tied. Like it or not, and I DON'T like it, that's the way it has to be. Common courtesy would dictate that the loop be closed, if nothing else. But it's not a matter of what we like or think is fair. If the docs say you can't build without approval, and no approval is forthcoming, then you can't build.

TammyO3

Posts:0

05/12/2008 8:09 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 05/12/2008 7:57 PM Posted By BradP on 05/12/2008 7:53 PM Michele: I think there is a point where the board or the ARC has to take responsibility if they are continually ignoring the homeowner and their duties. Yes, we will agree on that, however, two wrongs don't make a right, either. If your docs don't indicate that no response = approval, and they DO require that projects receive approvals BEFORE construction, then the homeowner has his hands tied. Like it or not, and I DON'T like it, that's the way it has to be. Common courtesy would dictate that the loop be closed, if nothing else. But it's not a matter of what we like or think is fair. If the docs say you can't build without approval, and no approval is forthcoming, then you can't build. Just thought I would give you all a follow up on this! It appears as though our 2 out of 5 board members did a walk through and cited many infractions and deemed them needing letters of correction. ( the other 3 board members were not previe to this!!!) It also is now known due to a board member releasing a very recent email that those 2 board members have blatant disregard for the own rules on which they are citing.. ( one has a bamboo partitian on their balcony... this encloses an open balcony and changes the appearance of the single unit. . Only fine mesh wire was approved to deter pets from crawling out of the bar slats... ............... and one of the other board members has plants hanging over thier balcony which is also clearly stated in their rules to be not OK! So, with this in hand the Partners if you will have a very interesting presentation coming up at our annual meeting... ( can hardly wait for them to ask the board members why the rules of balcony inclosure and plants haning over the balcony is ok..... I gave them the rule book highlighted to reference these.. )

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