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AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/23/2008 1:14 AM
I have had only one payment which was one day late. Because I was not aware of it management continued applying an additional ($50) late fee every month following it on timely payments. The CC&R's/Bylaws only state a $50 late fee if after the 15th, but nothing about charging late fees for an unpaid late fee, on payments which are all'on time'. Then a lien was put on my property and I am paying it, because HI State law says I must pay it first, then contest it. I am wondering if the management/BOD can charge a fee (on an unpaid late fee) since it is NOT called for in our CC&R's?? Also HI law states no late or misc. fees can be taken from the payment amount so they are separate. The BOD/management is refusing to give me a breakdown of the 'late charges' which do not add up to $50 per month. There is something else added in, or an error. Can they charge unauthorized fees, refuse a breakdown/explanation of these fees and place a lien and threaten foreclosure, for late fees?? I hope someone has direct knowledge about this as I do need some enlightenment. Thank You!

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/23/2008 9:23 AM
Did you not pay the original late fee? Or are they applying your current payments to the late fee which of course makes your current fee partially delinquent, generating additional late fees. It sounds like Hawaii, as does Arizona, requires any payment to be applied first to dues, and then to any other charges in a specified order. If they are not doing this, is there some entity in Hawaii that you can contact for help to enforce your state law? Also, you should have a lawyer write a letter (not all that expensive) demanding they give you an accounting of all the charges applied against you. No one can continue charging you, and putting a lien on your property, and refuse to divulge what it is for. Good luck.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/23/2008 11:20 PM
That is correct. The first late fee went unpaid for several months until I caught it. By that time the amount of fees were up to $500. Most are late fees but only one payment was late. I continue to pay the regular monthly dues on time and they do not have late fees deducted, which would make them late The other late fees are labled unpaid fee. I have talked to several attorneys in HI and none will simply write a letter for a flat fee. Retainers only! I have contacted some governing agencies and they say they don't handle this since it is 'civil'. Do you know of any entity that might help?? The Association did place a lien calling this non-payment of assessments and is threatening a quick, non-judicial foreclosure. You can foreclose for non-payment of assessments. I guess late fees are also assessments?? They know very well that an attorney will cost me more than their fees. As I have tried communicating with them the fees have compounded now to $3,000. They must be adding their attorney fees even though I have not heard from their attorney? Has any board member here had to comply with any agency?

DaneC
(California)

Posts:210

03/24/2008 3:34 PM
From Hawaii's Condominium Property Act. [§514B-146] Association fiscal matters; lien for assessments. (a) All sums assessed by the association but unpaid for the share of the common expenses chargeable to any unit shall constitute a lien on the unit with priority over all other liens, except: (1) Liens for taxes and assessments lawfully imposed by governmental authority against the unit; and (2) All sums unpaid on any mortgage of record that was recorded prior to the recordation of a notice of a lien by the association, and costs and expenses including attorneys' fees provided in such mortgages. The lien of the association may be foreclosed by action or by nonjudicial or power of sale foreclosure procedures set forth in chapter 667, by the managing agent or board, acting on behalf of the association, in like manner as a mortgage of real property. In any such 71 foreclosure, the unit owner shall be required to pay a reasonable rental for the unit, if so provided in the bylaws, and the plaintiff in the foreclosure shall be entitled to the appointment of a receiver to collect the rental owed. The managing agent or board, acting on behalf of the association, unless prohibited by the declaration, may bid on the unit at foreclosure sale, and acquire and hold, lease, mortgage, and convey the unit. Action to recover a money judgment for unpaid common expenses shall be maintainable without foreclosing or waiving the lien securing the unpaid common expenses owed. (b) Except as provided in subsection (g), when the mortgagee of a mortgage of record or other purchaser of a unit obtains title to the unit as a result of foreclosure of the mortgage, the acquirer of title and the acquirer's successors and assigns shall not be liable for the share of the common expenses or assessments by the association chargeable to the unit which became due prior to the acquisition of title to the unit by the acquirer. The unpaid share of common expenses or assessments shall be deemed to be common expenses collectible from all of the unit owners, including the acquirer and the acquirer's successors and assigns. The mortgagee of record or other purchaser of the unit shall be deemed to acquire title and shall be required to pay the unit's share of common expenses and assessments beginning: (1) Thirty-six days after the order confirming the sale to the purchaser has been filed with the court; (2) Sixty days after the hearing at which the court grants the motion to confirm the sale to the purchaser; (3) Thirty days after the public sale in a nonjudicial power of sale foreclosure pursuant to section 667-5; or (4) Upon the recording of the instrument of conveyance; whichever occurs first; provided that the mortgagee of record or other purchaser of the unit shall not be deemed to acquire title under paragraph (1), (2), or (3), if transfer of title is delayed past the thirty-six days specified in paragraph (1), the sixty days specified in paragraph (2), or the thirty days specified in paragraph (3), when a person who appears at the hearing on the motion or a party to the foreclosure action requests reconsideration of the motion or order to confirm sale, objects to the form of the proposed order to confirm sale, appeals the decision of the court to grant the motion to confirm sale, or the debtor or mortgagor declares bankruptcy or is involuntarily placed into bankruptcy. In any such case, the mortgagee of record or other purchaser of the unit shall be deemed to acquire title upon recordation of the instrument of conveyance. (c) No unit owner shall withhold any assessment claimed by the association. A unit owner who disputes the amount of an assessment may request a written statement clearly indicating: (1) The amount of common expenses included in the assessment, including the due date of each amount claimed; (2) The amount of any penalty, late fee, lien filing fee, and any other charge included in the assessment; (3) The amount of attorneys' fees and costs, if any, included in the assessment; (4) That under Hawaii law, a unit owner has no right to withhold assessments for any reason; 72 (5) That a unit owner has a right to demand mediation or arbitration to resolve disputes about the amount or validity of an association's assessment, provided the unit owner immediately pays the assessment in full and keeps assessments current; and (6) That payment in full of the assessment does not prevent the owner from contesting the assessment or receiving a refund of amounts not owed. Nothing in this section shall limit the rights of an owner to the protection of all fair debt collection procedures mandated under federal and state law. (d) A unit owner who pays an association the full amount claimed by the association may file in small claims court or require the association to mediate to resolve any disputes concerning the amount or validity of the association's claim. If the unit owner and the association are unable to resolve the dispute through mediation, either party may file for arbitration under section 514B-162; provided that a unit owner may only file for arbitration if all amounts claimed by the association are paid in full on or before the date of filing. If the unit owner fails to keep all association assessments current during the arbitration, the association may ask the arbitrator to temporarily suspend the arbitration proceedings. If the unit owner pays all association assessments within thirty days of the date of suspension, the unit owner may ask the arbitrator to recommence the arbitration proceedings. If the owner fails to pay all association assessments by the end of the thirty-day period, the association may ask the arbitrator to dismiss the arbitration proceedings. The unit owner shall be entitled to a refund of any amounts paid to the association which are not owed. (e) In conjunction with or as an alternative to foreclosure proceedings under subsection (a), where a unit is owner-occupied, the association may authorize its managing agent or board to, after sixty days' written notice to the unit owner and to the unit's first mortgagee of the nonpayment of the unit's share of the common expenses, terminate the delinquent unit's access to the common elements and cease supplying a delinquent unit with any and all services normally supplied or paid for by the association. Any terminated services and privileges shall be restored upon payment of all delinquent assessments but need not be restored until payment in full is received. (f) Before the board or managing agent may take the actions permitted under subsection (e), the board shall adopt a written policy providing for such actions and have the policy approved by a majority vote of the unit owners at an annual or special meeting of the association or by the written consent of a majority of the unit owners. (g) Subject to this subsection, and subsections (h) and (i), the board may specially assess the amount of the unpaid regular monthly common assessments for common expenses against a person who, in a judicial or nonjudicial power of sale foreclosure, purchases a delinquent unit; provided that: (1) A purchaser who holds a mortgage on a delinquent unit that was recorded prior to the filing of a notice of lien by the association and who acquires the delinquent unit through a judicial or nonjudicial foreclosure proceeding, including purchasing the delinquent unit at a foreclosure auction, shall not be obligated to make, nor be liable for, payment of the special assessment as provided for under this subsection; and 73 (2) A person who subsequently purchases the delinquent unit from the mortgagee referred to in paragraph (1) shall be obligated to make, and shall be liable for, payment of the special assessment provided for under this subsection; and provided further that the mortgagee or subsequent purchaser may require the association to provide at no charge a notice of the association's intent to claim lien against the delinquent unit for the amount of the special assessment, prior to the subsequent purchaser's acquisition of title to the delinquent unit. The notice shall state the amount of the special assessment, how that amount was calculated, and the legal description of the unit. (h) The amount of the special assessment assessed under subsection (g) shall not exceed the total amount of unpaid regular monthly common assessments that were assessed during the six months immediately preceding the completion of the judicial or nonjudicial power of sale foreclosure. In no event shall the amount of the special assessment exceed the sum of $1,800. (i) For purposes of subsections (g) and (h), the following definitions shall apply, unless the context requires otherwise: "Completion" means: (1) In a nonjudicial power of sale foreclosure, when the affidavit required under section 667-5 is filed; and (2) In a judicial foreclosure, when a purchaser is deemed to acquire title pursuant to subsection (b). "Regular monthly common assessments" does not include: (1) Any other special assessment, except for a special assessment imposed on all units as part of a budget adopted pursuant to section 514B-148; (2) Late charges, fines, or penalties; (3) Interest assessed by the association; (4) Any lien arising out of the assessment; or (5) Any fees or costs related to the collection or enforcement of the assessment, including attorneys' fees and court costs. (j) The cost of a release of any lien filed pursuant to this section shall be paid by the party requesting the release.

Dane Clark Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Vice President, Common Interest Developments Bay Commercial Bank Learn More About our Community Assoc. Banking Programs *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

GloriaM
(North Carolina)

Posts:778

03/24/2008 3:38 PM
Without knowing all of the facts; it is clear to state that when making a payment with an unpaid balance your payment would 1st go to your unpaid balance then be credited toward current dues. Therefore what may be assumed as just a late payment could be an unpaid balance that was due and the fees were assessed towards your unpaid balance. Again without knowing the account history & facts it is a difficult assumption to make.

Dr. Gloria J. Martinez, CFO Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Author of "A Guide to Community Living" Faith Management Services, LLC (North Carolina) (704) 799-3791 www.FaithManagementServices.com *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/24/2008 7:48 PM
That would explain all those fees ..... except ... the association can not do that. Hawaii State has this statue 514B-105 Association; limitations on powers. No association shall deduct and apply portions of common expense payments received from a unit owner to unpaid late fees, legal fees, fines, and interest (other than amounts remitted by a unit owner in payment of late fees, legal fees, fines, and interest unless this is already in the bylaws or the board adopts and distributes to all owners to adopt this policy.) There are NO unpaid dues. The above prevents applying dues to late fees first. This policy is NOT included in our bylaws. The bylaws state only one single statement on late fees. (in first post)

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/24/2008 8:10 PM
Late fees are 'NOT' a common expense, as it states above. Common expenses are for 'expenses' that arise from common usage and yes, are considered a lien. Late fees are a penalty and if unpaid for a month, does not cause anyone harm or create more common expenses. Also, if the late fee is $50, it seems odd to charge a $50 fee the following month, for $50 being late. .. * Noting the dues are entirely separate (as stated in 514b-105 below).

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/24/2008 9:41 PM
That sounds like Arizona's law which requires all payments received to be applied first to dues & assessments. It then mandates the order where excess payments, if any, can be applied. As you stated, that is because those fees and fines are not needed for the day to day operation of the HOA, as your dues are, so receiving them are not essential for the HOAs survival. And also it prevents current dues payments being applied against late fees, interest, fines, etc. and thus allowing the current dues to become delinquent and subject the property to another cycle of late fees, interest, etc. and more importantly, foreclosure because of non payment of dues and assessments. In Arizona we can foreclose only on non payment of dues or assessments after a dollar or time factor is reached. That is why it is always so important to pay your dues and assessments on time.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/25/2008 2:23 AM
Maybe I am not reading your post correctly, ... but if Regular Monthly Dues are continually paid, on time and NO 'Other Fees' can be subtracted from them, then it seems to me the dues can NOT be delinquent. The Dues are ALL PAID in full. The only thing unpaid, is one single $50 late fee which the management decided to continue charging every month ..... (which I believe is in error) ..... NOT for that month's dues being late (as they were on time), .. but ONLY for the one single unpaid late fee. .. anyone...... Am I understanding this correctly?

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2156

03/25/2008 9:39 AM
I hear ya Alison! But, can they charge a late fee for an unpaid late fee? I've never heard of it but I don't like to say it's never done. Just when you say that, someone comes out and says the opposite. :-( Mary AZ

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2156

03/25/2008 9:45 AM
Harold, You stated: "In Arizona we can foreclose only on non payment of dues or assessments after a dollar or time factor is reached. That is why it is always so important to pay your dues and assessments on time." Actually the assn can also include in the foreclosure "reasonable collection fees, reasonable attorney fees and costs incurred with respect to those assesments". This means late fees can be included in the foreclosure. Mary AZ

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/25/2008 10:25 AM
A 'fact' is there were NO non payment of dues or assessments. The dues have been paid in full every month without fail. Other assessments - over $2,000 for upgrades & repairs were also paid, on time & in full, without fail. The one single unpaid late fee exploded into hundreds of $$$ then thousands of $$$$$, .... in 4 months. .. THEN .... that amount ... was LABELED an assessment. Just NAMED/CALLED an assessment! Which is likely a correct label. Just don't mix it up with a general assessment on everyone. It is NOT for the common good or common necessity! It was not a regular assessment on everyone. Only me and ONLY for these late fees, of which only one, is called for in the bylaws.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/25/2008 10:35 AM
I don't know IF they can charge a late fee, ONLY for an unpaid late fee, Mary?? .... I would very much like that information! Also, I thought that 'unpaid charge' should be written in the bylaws. In this case it is NOT!! Our Bylaws only state "a $50 late fee for payments paid 'after' the 15th. Also, General Business Laws on late fees, have a limit on the amount that can be charged. It is usually called 'interest' and is a State set percentage. You cannot charge double. This puzzles me.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/25/2008 11:23 AM
Mary, you did not include the entire statute. Late fees, interest, attorney fees can ONLY be foreclosed IF the assessment is delinquent. Neither are the collection fees, attorney fees, late charges, etc. allowed to be use to compute the $1,200 threshold. "but may be foreclosed only if the owner has been delinquent in the payment of monies secured by the lien, excluding reasonable collection fees, reasonable attorney fees and charges for late payment of and costs incurred with respect to those assessments, for a period of one year or in the amount of one thousand two hundred dollars or more, whichever occurs first. Fees, charges, late charges, monetary penalties and interest charged pursuant to section 33-1803, other than charges for late payment of assessments are not enforceable as assessments under this section. If an assessment is payable in installments, the full amount of the assessment is a lien from the time the first installment of the assessment becomes due. The association has a lien for fees, charges, late charges, other than charges for late payment of assessments, monetary penalties or interest charged pursuant to section 33-1803 after the entry of a judgment in a civil suit for those fees, charges, late charges, monetary penalties or interest from a court of competent jurisdiction and the recording of that judgment in the office of the county recorder as otherwise provided by law. The association's lien for monies other than for assessments, for charges for late payment of those assessments, for reasonable collection fees and for reasonable attorney fees and costs incurred with respect to those assessments may not be foreclosed and is effective only on conveyance of any interest in the real property. And if you read the last part, these other fees cannot be foreclosed upon, even with a civil judgment, but must wait until the property is transferred to another owner. And if you do not get a civil judgment on these fees and do not file a lien for that judgment, you cannot collect any of those fees at title transfer. That doesn't preclude you from attempting collection of your civil judgment by other civil means tho. So, if one keeps the assessments current, there cannot be a foreclosure based on other fees. I am curious Mary: Your state listing is Arkansas, but you use AZ in your signature.

MaryA1
(Arizona)

Posts:2156

03/25/2008 12:09 PM
Alison, I don't know what the laws are in HI, but here in AZ we have a state law limiting the amount of late fees for unpaid assessments -- it's the greater of $15 or 10% of the unpaid assessment. Same applies for the late payment of a penalty on a CCR violation. BTW, late fees and interest are not the same thing. In most instances interest is only charged on an unpaid lien. Mary AZ

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

03/25/2008 9:46 PM
Alison I am not familiar with Hawaii's laws and these are questions to ask an attorney familiar with the real estate laws there before you lose your home or have your credit score negatively impacted. You could also request a copy of the Association's collection policy and /or request a hearing before the BOD on this matter. As far as not providing you with a breakdown of the charges, that is ridiculous. Besides whatever law may apply, our documents require it here: Upon five (5) days notice to the Board of Trustees and upon payment of a reasonable fee, any unit owner shall be furnished a statement of his account setting the amount of any unpaid assessments or other charges due and owing from such owner. Ohio changed the law on how late payments are applied in COA's and while I do not necessarily agree with it; we must abide by it: Section 8.13. Application of Assessments - The Association shall credit payments made by a Unit Owner in the following order of priority: (A)First, to interest owed to the Association; (B)Second, to administrative late fees owed to the Association; (C)Third, to collection costs, attorney’s fees, and paralegal fees incurred by the Association; and (D)Fourth, to the principal amounts the Unit Owner owes to the Association for the common expenses or Enforcement Assessments chargeable against the Unit

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/25/2008 10:30 PM
Glad I no longer live in Ohio Glen.

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

03/25/2008 11:48 PM
Posted By HaroldS on 03/25/2008 10:30 PM Glad I no longer live in Ohio Glen. Harold, I'm assuming you mean because of how the assessments are applied and as I said I do not necessarily agree with it but I do understand the need of doing it this way; otherwise the HO that are late would in effect be getting an interest free loan. (:>)

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/27/2008 10:49 AM
Glen - Arizona recognizes that HOAs need the dues and assessments to fund their operating expenses. Late fees, interest, fines, etc. are not supposedly required for operating the HOA. In addition, unpaid assessments can be foreclosed upon, but a person should not lose their home because of other fees not needed for operating the HOA. So consequently here any payments made must be first applied to outstanding assessments. It is true a homeowner can go forever paying only the assessment and not have the property foreclosed. But the HOA must do due diligence and has legal rights to get a judgment for those other fees, and place a lien on the property which is collectible at sale, or can use other legal means to collect a judgment just like any other creditor. To get a court judgment in Arizona, an HOA must justify the charges, etc they are trying to collect. I don't see that control in Ohio, where they apparently can declare any charge, and apply payment to those charges, unless a homeowner does a legal challenge. (Correct me if I am wrong.)

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1362

03/27/2008 4:48 PM
Harold the protections are there: 5311.081 (C)(1) Prior to imposing a charge for damages or an enforcement assessment pursuant to division (B)(12) of this section, the board of directors shall give the unit owner a written notice that includes all of the following: (a) A description of the property damage or violation; (b) The amount of the proposed charge or assessment; (c) A statement that the owner has a right to a hearing before the board of directors to contest the proposed charge or assessment; (d) A statement setting forth the procedures to request a hearing pursuant to division (C)(2) of this section; (e) A reasonable date by which the unit owner must cure the violation to avoid the proposed charge or assessment. (2)(a) To request a hearing, the owner shall deliver a written notice to the board of directors not later than the tenth day after receiving the notice required by division (C)(1) of this section. If the owner fails to make a timely request for a hearing, the right to that hearing is waived, and the board may immediately impose a charge for damages or an enforcement assessment pursuant to division (C) of this section. (b) If a unit owner requests a hearing, at least seven days prior to the hearing the board of directors shall provide the unit owner with a written notice that includes the date, time, and location of the hearing. (3) The board of directors shall not levy a charge or assessment before holding any hearing requested pursuant to division (C)(2) of this section. (4) The unit owners, through the board of directors, may allow a reasonable time to cure a violation described in division (B)(12) of this section before imposing a charge or assessment. (5) Within thirty days following a hearing at which the board of directors imposes a charge or assessment, the unit owners association shall deliver a written notice of the charge or assessment to the unit owner. (6) Any written notice that division (C) of this section requires shall be delivered to the unit owner or any occupant of the unit by personal delivery, by certified mail, return receipt requested, or by regular mail.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/28/2008 2:43 AM
Hi State Law does not have an amount reached before an action can be taken. It has some limits on amounts charged but they seem to be a % per month, but it does not restrict the total charged. * Two Important QUESTIONS are *** ..... CAN they charge a late fee, ONLY for an unpaid late fee? ..... AND .... does this charge need to be written in the Bylaws? ANY IDEAS ON THESE TWO ARE WELCOMED! I thought an AOAO can NOT charge a fee in a manner which is NOT in the Bylaws????? Charging one late fee on one late payment follows our bylaws, ... .. but repeating that charge every month the fee-only is unpaid, ... I believe changes 'what it is charged for' (an unpaid late fee NOT a late payment) ... and 'how' it is charged. (on on-time payments)+ (repeatedly). OUR BYLAWS Our Bylaws do NOT include ANY fine/fee for unpaid late fees. They also do NOT contain any 'method' or outline of ANY collection procedures. The HI State Code prohibits an association from subtracting ANY other fees, or charges of any kind .. FROM any regular dues paid. The dues have been paid - in full - on time - without fail, and continue to be. Special assessments .. the same. Only ONE monthly payment was ONE day late and that happened because they will NOT record payments after 2:00 on fri, until Mon.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

03/28/2008 9:34 AM
Glen - sounds like you have good due process. My point entirely is: Arizona recognizes HOAs need to collect assessment fees to operate, so gives them the power to collect the needed assessments. Thus requiring any payment received be applied first to the assessment. Any other late charges, interest, etc. not required for operating, is given the same legal collecting methods as any other creditor has. As far as getting a free loan, that could happen, but only if the HOA does not use due diligence by all legal means to collect those other charges. The only legal means they can't use is to foreclose on those other unpaid charges. Alison - I don't know your Hawaii law as far as allowing late charges on late charges. I would suppose they would allow interest on any unpaid charges tho. If there is nothing in your state statutes specifically for HOAs about this situation, you might check statutes for banking or usury. And yes, somewhere in your documents it has to declare what they can do. More importantly: What type of debt does Hawaii allow to be foreclosed upon? Can they foreclose on these late charges? You shouldn't let these charges continue. If there is nothing in your documents allowing them to place late charges, you need an attorney to write them a letter telling them to cease and desist or....

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

03/29/2008 6:15 AM
AlisonR1: You state..."Only ONE monthly payment was ONE day late and that happened because they will NOT record payments after 2:00 on fri, until Mon.". With this HOA requirement known by all members, and yours was perhaps mailed late, then it is valid they charge a late fee on the payment in question (though, IMO, its a bit excessive). Send the Prop.Mgr., with copy to Board, a certified letter stating you are willing to pay the late fee for the one-day late paid assessment, and enclose the check. Further, request what HOA requirement or State regulation is being used as authority to charge a fee on a Late Fee. Further, you will be anxious to hear from them re an acknowledgement of your check in addition to the actual quoted statement/s as confirmation of this practice. Good Luck!

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

03/29/2008 7:37 PM
Yes, PaulM, even though not posting a payment when it comes in - since staff is there 7 days a week, to me seems unreasonable, I do realize it was a valid charge and am very willing to pay it. The fact that a $50 fee exploded to over $1,000 in 3 months, to me was beyond unreasonable! I very much like your idea of asking for a copy of the HOA requirement being used as authority to charge a fee on a late fee. I am going to do this and I will post the reply! .... .... What I AM expecting is they will state the one bylaw of "if a pmt. arrives after the 15th there is a 50 late fee." Implying it warrants ALL the fees. But, .... I already did the check part and it solved nothing and did not get a response.

JodyR2
(Hawaii)

Posts:3

05/01/2008 1:03 PM
alison i am in a similar predicament .i was late on paying hoas and what should have been 800.00 dollars in fees is upwards of 5.000 and the preceedings to foreclose from hoa has started .do i pay or fight ?idont know any help appreciated.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

05/02/2008 1:07 AM
If you have any equity in your unit you should definitely stop the foreclosure. A 'good' association attorney who represents 'owners' can file a type of 'objection' to the foreclosure which temp. stops it. But I suggest YOU first offer to pay the full amount, directly to the President of the AOAO Board - very soon - either by FAX or by phone, but also be sure to notify Every Board Member (maybe via email/letter). I suggest paying because they can and will easily, quickly, & legally foreclose and it is hell trying to get it back. BUT, in HI AFTER ("only" after) you pay in full, you have the "law on your side" to make them prove their fees are reasonable and warranted and try to get your payment refunded if they can't prove that! If you wish to include an extra email address in a post(not your main one),I will email mine. I am in the middle of negotiations and legal actions right now, today, so I've learned a lot. I have my own info. to share, but am not a lawyer and would never give anyone legal advice, ever! Which Island?

JodyR2
(Hawaii)

Posts:3

05/02/2008 9:36 AM
maui.casper@wowguy.com and yes there is equity in the house.the homeowners says just talk to the lawyer and the lawyer says pay in full or else he wont stop it.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/02/2008 1:06 PM
Alison: I don't know the answer to your question, but all I can say is shame on your board. If this is the first time you have been late and it was only one day they should have as a good will gesture waived the late fee this one time. I will probably get crucified since I am stepping outside of the box of rules here, but I firmly believe the board must exercise good judgement but also care about its members. For those who want to argue that the HOA is a business and these were the rules and she should have followed, I would be willing to bet you that I could pay one day late to any company that I deal with and still get them to waive the late charges if it was my first time paying late. Customer service is a term that HOA's should be familiar with, but most aren't.

AlisonR1
(Hawaii)

Posts:12

05/03/2008 1:49 AM
I totally agree and do not know why treating owners with courtesy, flexibility and consideration is not the norm for HOA's. HOA's have very strong and legal powers AND enough money to win - fair or not! All it takes is a one or two people in the right position, who enjoy power over others. I thank you for your opinion on this, as I believe it expresses what a million owners are thinking!...including me!

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

05/03/2008 8:27 PM
Alison: You hear a lot of people here talking about an HOA being a business...if that is the case in the business world customer service is a major focus of a lot of companies. I wish HOA's would do that.

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