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Subject: A Pandora's Box In The Making?

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JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:568

06/12/2008 9:26 AM
Here’s an interesting situation: Our Prez e-mailed me, re: the agenda for our AM next week, that one of our residents, Sally, would like to have a discussion about the possibility of putting a path across some of the Common Property in our Small Eastern Subdivision (SES) to the adjacent Huge Western Subdivision (HWS) with which we have no legal nor other link. Next day, I bumped into VP and he elaborated: Sally is close friends with Jill, the owner of a house in HWS, to which the path would essentially lead. Both have kids who hang out together, etc. Sally essentially will be asking “only” for a cut-through, as in, no gravel or paving. Are all your HOA antennae up yet? So are mine. Here’s some info to fill in the blanks. We (SES) have 21 SFDs and a very healthy fertility rate – over 50 children ranging in age from 1 month to 17 years. HWS consists of two chunks. Phase 1(where Jill resides) has maybe over 200 SFDs. Phase 2, on the other side of a major public road, has maybe 400 town homes and condos. All of HWS amenities – club house, pool, open areas – are in Phase 2. Our amenities are 4 ponds (two big enough to attract fishers, whether they live here or not), loads of open space and an antique, dilapidated 19th century spring house which we are forbidden to alter, and must maintain for aesthetic/historic reasons, by our Township (our local gov’t agency). Another Township interest is a 20 foot-wide easement that runs (east to west) from our street, along side Sally’s house, through our Common Property, along side Jill’s house, and up to a HWS street. Our CCRs indicate this was reserved for a future walking/bike path that someday might connect various area subdivisions. The distance across our Common Property from the rear of Sally’s lot to the back of Jill’s lot is around 200 feet through thick, wild vegetation, mostly bushes, grasses and scrub trees in the 20-40 foot high range. The land drops about 15 feet down from Sally’s lot, then up 15 feet to Jill’s lot. One other notation: for Sally to drive a car from her house to Jill’s house is an over 2 mile jaunt. Assuming there was a cut-through path, the only way to access it and/or the two subdivisions, by our residents, or from visitors from HWS, would involve crossing private property of Sally, Jill and probably that of others. My primary purpose is to look after the best interests of our community. My first reaction is this has disaster written all over it. A few points that immediately come to mind are: 1. A possibly major influx of kids, teens and adults from HWS into ours, especially to use our Common Property for whatever activities they choose. Though we have NO TRESPASS signs at the ponds, they are virtually ignored, esp. by non-resident fishers. The pond area is already a popular locale for underage drinking (resident & non alike), judging from empty liquor bottles oft-times found on the adjoining street and parkway. 2. Possible/probable litter and vandalism (we have a fountain in the largest pond, controlled from an electrical box on land). 3. We’ve already had a few (non-resident) ATVs and snowmobiles show up in the past. A path would make them so much easier to gain access. 4. HOA liability when something eventually goes very wrong. 5. At the end of the day, is there really a benefit to our community at large, or is this just a convenience for a few? Your thoughts, please, on anything else you see that I don’t. Would you approve this as an HOA expense-paid project under any circumstances? Note: Our ByLaws give the Board this call. I’ll guess a fallback position for Sally might be that she’ll pay for the clearing. Would you approve that? If you need more info, just ask. Thanks in advance.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1866

06/12/2008 9:55 AM
I would not approve it. Your list is sufficient. There is no conceivable benefit to the HOA for this "path" to exist, and there is plenty of potential "harm" that could be incurred as a result of it. The Open Area will remain intact as is.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

06/12/2008 10:27 AM
A couple of things: If the township already has an easement through the area for a future bike/ped path, then Sally and Jill could go to the township and ask them to build it. You might not want to commit HOA funds to the path, but you may end up with one anyway. The presence of paths to connect neighborhoods does not automatically lead to an influx of outsiders and all the problems that you list. Many city planners are starting to require these paths in new communities since without them often the only way to get from one area to another involves a long trip (as you noted), which is typically made by car, which leads to more traffic congestion. By connecting communities together with these bike/ped paths, people (especially kids) are able to get to friends houses without having to rely on the family car. In addition, having a means for people to get around by foot or by bike can build a stronger sense of community. I'm much more likely to chat with a neighbor if I'm on foot than when I'm in a car. I would agree that you probably don't need to commit HOA funds to the project, but if it were me I wouldn't oppose it either.

LisaB11
(Florida)

Posts:3

06/12/2008 11:27 AM
I can see a benefit amongst the field of resistance, however, you had better look into the Americans with Disabilities Act or similar federal regulation as it sounds like a dirt path (just a clearing) may not be accessible to those with disabilities and may be considered as discrimination. So if the reasons (all valid) that you have already stated are not enough to convince the Board and membership to reject this request, maybe the expense of the project to bring it to Federal Compliance (if applicable) will sway those in favor to rethink their position.

KirkW1
(Texas)

Posts:1190

06/12/2008 12:54 PM
What comes to my mind is: If you put in a path, you need to put it where it benefits ALL residents and not just Sally. And there is no reason why your HOA should foot the entire bill for the path if it connects to another neighborhood. Now a walking path might be a good idea if it would improve the walking experience of a good number of your residents. If not, then it is a bad idea. But if your residents would like to be able to link into other streets making their evening walks more enjoyable, then it is something to consider. And Sally probably isn't the only one with a kid who would hang out with a friend from HWS. If I read this correctly, this is for your annual meeting. If you don't put it on the agenda, it may come up anyway. And then you look bad for having suppressed the democratic process. If you do put it in, then she can speak her peace. Some others will have something to say as well. And your board can promise to look into it and investigate the costs and feasibility. Now you have another year before you deal with it again. And you can report how much it will cost to make sure you don't end up being sued by the wheelchair bound resident you don't yet know about. And you can possibly report that the other HOA board soundly rejected the idea. So you don't want to put a path to nowhere in.

hoatalk

Posts:490

06/13/2008 3:40 AM
- HOA funds should benefit the whole community if possible and the fact that the path would cross private property would be a deal breaker for me. I'd vote no simply because this would not be a 'community' path. It would be only for the homeowners directly next to it. - The note about paving above is a good one. Even if the ADA doesn't require it you still must keep vegetation off the path and maintain it (gravel, paving) by landscaping, killing grass/weeds on it, removing ruts so no one sprains an ankle., etc. And you can't have your workers crossing private property to access the path. - You mentioned it going through thick vegetation: Might you need to provide a 'secure' path making it wide enough and maybe even putting in lights? Do you really want to encourage children to use this area and incur that liability? If the city decides to come and do this for you then OK....it's their maintenace issue. However, don't count on them doing this. Greenways are all the rage now, but they can years or decades to get funded.

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DJ1
(Ontario)

Posts:460

06/13/2008 5:01 AM
Crossing private property isn't particularly a barrier depending on what the current easement says, and/or if they simply modify/establish a new easement allowing for the use by members of either HOA. We were supposed to have an easement along several homeowners lots for the use of members. I suppose the HOA insurance would have to somehow cover any injuries someone might suffer on those individual homeowner's property OR the homeowners themselves may have to ensure coverage. HO's bought knowing of the easement so cost assignment to them was a risk they took. In your case, if HO1 and HO2 WANT it then they may have to accept increased insurance costs...THAT may convince them they don't really WANT IT!

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:568

06/13/2008 9:30 AM
Thanks, all, for your responses. Let me address a few points that have been brought up. We have every intention to have this as an agenda item and to allow Sally and/or anyone else pitch the idea, and to keep open minds, and allow open discussion. In fact, if Sally or others choose to pursue the matter after we have raised some preliminary considerations, we will ask if she would like to chair a subcommittee to conduct a thorough study of the matter. Regarding the easement: this belongs to the township, not us. It allows the township to construct a path if it chooses to. The easement cuts and crosses in between Sally’s house and an adjacent lot to the Common Area. There is already a driveway apron to nowhere built on the street so if the path were built by the township, there would be no curbs impeding access. Regarding trespassing: If our HOA built the path, the only way it could be accessed on our end would be via Sally’s or the adjacent lot. We do not have an easement for that purpose. Paving, gravel, or even a simple cut through is not in our 2008 budget. Because of the 15 foot drop/raise, a bridge might be required. If the township chose, again, to build one with tax money, fine. But we’re talking 1000s of $$$s. Being self-managed, we are very tight with the purse strings and conservative in spending. Carry on.

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