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Subject: IS WEB POSTING DELENQUENT HOA DUES LEGAL?

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JamesW9
(Georgia)

Posts:2

04/08/2008 3:55 PM
?????

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1732

04/08/2008 4:07 PM
technically, it is probably not criminal. it might possibly be civily tortable, in some states, depending on how you mean to publish, etc..

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

04/08/2008 9:05 PM
Obviously your only concern is about legality. But what is your purpose? To shame or intimidate your members? This subject has been discussed here before. Do a search.

JamesW9
(Georgia)

Posts:2

04/09/2008 4:45 AM
Thank you, I will look. My board members are trying to make me do this and I do not feel it is right. I want to find a leagel way of saying no.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

04/09/2008 5:50 AM
I don't have a problem with it, personally or philosophically, as long as the area on the website on which they are listed is not accessible by the general public, go for it. These aren't cable bills or credit card debts. These are all members of the same organization, all stockholders, as has been mentioned before. There is no reason why it should be "secret" information, as long as personal information like social security numbers, etc, aren't listed. If it will make you feel better, list it only by the address and not by someone's name. It's the address that is the key anyway. These are the Accounts Receivables of the organization. We often confuse this with "personal debt" info to which other members are somehow not allowed to see. If it embarrasses or "intimidates" anyone, then that is their response and not something we have any control over. That may not be the "purpose" of it, but it might well be a side effect. If they don't wish to experience that "feeling," they need to make sure their Account Receivable status is up-to-date. We don't have a private area on our website, so we don't do that, however we do mail a listing of all addresses and the paid/not paid status to everyone as a second reminder notice. Everyone has full disclosure on the Accounts Receivable. Just as they have full disclosure on the Accounts Payable. It also helps to reinforce why John Doe at the meeting was not allowed to vote at the meeting. The other members know right away it's not because the board "had it in for him," as he tends to spread around, but rather because his Accounts Receivable is in arrears. But that information should only be available to other members of the organization and not the general public.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

04/09/2008 10:52 AM
Why don't we just lock the offenders in stocks on the common area and allow the good paying members to throw eggs and tomatoes at them? That should get their attention. None of Michele's comments address seeking a REASON the offender might not be able to pay. But what the hey; delinquent is delinquent.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

04/09/2008 10:56 AM
Posted By HaroldS on 04/09/2008 10:52 AM None of Michele's comments address seeking a REASON the offender might not be able to pay. But what the hey; delinquent is delinquent. Yup. See? We can find areas of agreement if we look hard enough! :-}

KarenS11
(Florida)

Posts:145

04/09/2008 11:02 AM
Can we do that? And can we purchase the stocks from our reserve account? From recreation budget? We don't have a produce budget, but maybe was could purchase water ballons from our irrigation budget. Seriously, we now have a website and are going to post minutes of each meeting. But I think our new management company uses unique numbers to identify each property. Now if someone really wanted to know who a particular homeowner was, they could call the management company and obtain that info, but it has been open to all residents all along.

SidneyP
(Florida)

Posts:276

04/09/2008 12:09 PM
I agree w/Michele...and this has been posted over and over....If a HO is having a financial problem, at least contact the MC/Board and try and workout a payment plan. If a HO doesn't feel he/she owes this much to their neighbors, then print that list. Their neighbor may be having just as hand a time financially as the delinquent HO but know the responsible thing to do. HO's must realize that the HOA cannot be run w/o that money (especially a small community)and realize what a hardship they are placing on their neighbors who will most likely have to pay more to cover the expenses....In my community (TH's) every single delinquent account (14/$14,568.) are investors and some own 2/3 properties. Most are rented at all times, vacant only a few weeks at a time. It is usually their renters that cost the HO's the most trouble/money. Several singles more in one unit, parties, park on the grass, running over sprinklers...notices to out of town HO's go unanswered. What does the HOA do? Can't fine, can't take them to court. WHY? because the association has NO money to do this. HO's that don't pay their fair share should be shamed, if that's at all possible. These people just don't care. It takes $75. for an attorney to write a letter and $325. to place a lien, where is this money coming from?

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

04/09/2008 12:40 PM
James - check out the Federal Fair Debt collection Practice Act - http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/fdc.shtm

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

04/09/2008 12:50 PM
Sidney said: " HO's that don't pay their fair share should be shamed, if that's at all possible. These people just don't care. " Well, there you go. I think someone who believes that posting or publishing or distributing the list of those delinquent in their assessment obligation is a tool to humiliate, shame, or intimidate may simply be projecting their own feelings on possibly seeing their address on such a list. In other words, since it would embarrass them, they think everyone would be similarly embarrassed. I'm not saying that maybe, MAYBE, one or two of those delinquent HOs might not get embarrassed at such a listing, but it's more likely than not that the majority of people on the list won't be. Interesting note on this topic: Our local Sheriff publishes the names and addresses and amounts of residents who are delinquent in their local tax obligations. They publish THAT in the local newspaper for everyone to enjoy with their morning coffee. There never seems to be a run on eggs and rotten tomatoes when that list arrives on everyone's doorstep in the daily news, but then, I'm not in the grocery business, so I wouldn't know.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1675

04/09/2008 12:53 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 04/09/2008 12:50 PM I'm not saying that maybe, MAYBE, one or two of those delinquent HOs might not get embarrassed at such a listing, but it's more likely than not that the majority of people on the list won't be. Need to correct this to read that maybe one or two of those delinquent HOs MIGHT get embarrassed. . . But I think it's more likely that most of them on the list will not be.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:753

04/09/2008 12:58 PM
I know this has been covered before but it bears a review: The problems with publishing the names of delinquents are: Timing - there is a potential liability if reported after a payment has been made (there is often a time lapse between payment and the reporting of that payment) so that the owner is no longer delinquent while their name is still published. I'm not sure a disclaimer attached to the published names would be sufficient. Innacuracy - there is a potential liability for incorrectly reporting a delinquency. Privacy - although this has been written about by a number of people on this forum (as to whether or not privacy rights enter into the issue) the only time I've seen it written about by an attorney, he recommended against publishing names (http://www.meeb.com/legal_alert/legal_alert_03_07.htm) Bankruptcy - there may be a bankruptcy involved which the association may not know of and this could be viewed as a collection attempt which would be prohibited under some of the bankruptcy chapters Community - while it might embarass some owners into paying, it is more likely to create long-term anger with the board and/or management. IMO, the pros do not outweigh the cons for this as an association policy. If you're having problems with collections, first make sure you're doing everything else you can. Here's a good outline for a collection policy: http://www.hindmansanchez.com/docs/a_practical_approach_to_collecting_assoc_assessments__05287880_.pdf I wouldn't publish the names without a clear opinion from the association's attorney (some state laws may enter into this with which we wouldn't be familiar) and from your insurance agent, that this would be covered under the association's general and D&O liability policies. Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1732

04/09/2008 3:42 PM
FYI, the fair debt collection act does not apply to HOA's who are self managed and collect debts for their own accounts. Such entities are not defined as "debt collectors", and thus, not covered in the scope of that statute. However, should you use a management company, you may be on the borderline. Obviously, if you use a debt collection agency, THEY are subject to the statutes.

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > IS WEB POSTING DELENQUENT HOA DUES LEGAL?