RandyS
(Colorado)
Posts:29
 |
| 11/12/2005 7:39 AM |
|
I would like the meetings recorded for accuracy. Are there certain procedures to follow if they are recorded?
Being new to the BOD, I would like to see this used, simply for accuracy in the minutes.
Thanks for the feedback. |
|
|
|
|
DaroldF
(Colorado)
Posts:6
|
| 11/12/2005 3:12 PM |
|
| I too was new to the Board and have become concerned about the accuracy of our meeting minutes, so I asked that question in one of the Orten & Hindman classes. I was advised that it wasn't recommended, but that if it was done the recording should be erased after transcription and not maintained as a continuing record. |
|
|
|
|
RandyS
(Colorado)
Posts:29
|
| 11/13/2005 12:04 PM |
|
That's what I thought, and getting them onto paper for would bethe priority there for sure.
But did they happen to indicated that it must be announced that the meeting is being recorded for accuracy, or can you just record.
Thank
Randy
|
|
|
|
|
DCWilliams
(Wyoming)
Posts:6
|
| 11/15/2005 2:48 AM |
|
| I am a director of an unrelated (to HOA's) non-profit organization where the secretary uses a recorder for the purpose of accurately transcribing minutes. However, this organization received legal advice that as soon as each meetings minutes are prepared from the transcription the tape should be erased. The only legal record that is used are the written minutes. Tapes are still not totally fool proof. For instance, there are occasions when it is difficult to hear which person, by name, made a motion. |
|
|
|
|
KrisD
(Wisconsin)
Posts:7
|
| 11/15/2005 5:26 PM |
|
Back in February, myself another a few others in our neigbhorhood met with our Developer to talk about the neighborhood and discuss the process for turning over the HOA to the neighbors. One of our neighbors had a recorder he volunteered to bring simply for the purpose of having a record of our meeting.
He placed it plain site in the middle of the table and our meeting proceeded. About half way through, our Developer spotted it and virtually flipped out! He didn't storm out or anything but he felt all parties should have been informed of this. My neigbor's defense was simply that it was not hidden, but in plain site. The meeting proceeded and he didn't make us turn off the recorder. |
|
|
|
|
DaroldF
(Colorado)
Posts:6
|
| 11/15/2005 9:27 PM |
|
| Randy, I didn't think to ask that question, but presently we're not using a recorder. But this info might be helpful: We are in the process of updating our policies. Our attorny is drafting them based on questionnaires we've prepared. For our annual homeowner meeting the draft says: "So as to allow for and encourage full discussion by Owners, no meeting may be audio, video or otherwise recorded. Minutes of actions taken shall be kept by the association." However, for Board meetings, which are open to owners, the draft says: " No meeting of the Board may be audio, video or otherwise recorded except by the Board to aid in the preparation of minutes. Minutes of actions taken shall be kept by the Association." Doesn't say anything about notifying all present that a recording is in process, and I wouldn't think it's necessary since it's only to aid in the preparation of minutes and is not an official record to be maintained. |
|
|
|
|
RandyS
(Colorado)
Posts:29
|
| 11/16/2005 5:03 AM |
|
Thus far, I've not founding anything in the governing documents to indicate that proceedings can not be recorded in any fashion.
Not sure as to the laws in Colorado are for this, but will look into this before doing so, just to be sure that no laws or civil rights would be violated as a result.
|
|
|
|
|
AllanB
(Nevada)
Posts:1
|
| 11/22/2005 6:27 AM |
|
| In Nevada,if you state that you are going to recorded the BOD meeting you can. That is part of NRS 116 which covers C.I.C.(s). |
|
|
|
|
StephenG
(Colorado)
Posts:4
|
| 11/22/2005 3:15 PM |
|
Posted By RandyS on 11/16/2005 5:03 AM
Thus far, I've not founding anything in the governing documents to indicate that proceedings can not be recorded in any fashion.
Not sure as to the laws in Colorado are for this, but will look into this before doing so, just to be sure that no laws or civil rights would be violated as a result.
|
|
|
|
|
StephenG
(Colorado)
Posts:4
|
| 11/22/2005 3:30 PM |
|
| If you find a C.R.S. while researching this, would you post the number of the C.R.S.or any other information (links) which may be helpful. We are having issues between board members and homeowners on whether or not the homeowners can record (audio)the monthly meetings, to use for their personnal reference. SG |
|
|
|
|
CharlesT
(Florida)
Posts:6
|
| 11/22/2005 5:23 PM |
|
| In Florida, taping or video recording is acceptacle at board meetings. However, the board may draft rules for their use. |
|
|
|
|
WilliamT
(Arizona)
Posts:489
|
| 05/29/2006 8:45 AM |
|
In Arizona there is a "one party consent" law for audio recording. If you are a party to the conversation, then you may record with or without the other partys' consent. You do not need to notify the other party that you are recording.
In a case where the bylaws make no mention of audio recording, can a board, notwithstanding the statute permitting recording, elect to deny the right to audio record an association meeting? |
|
|
|
|
RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
|
| 05/29/2006 10:27 AM |
|
William, they can not deny you attending but IMO the Board can deny any recording.
|
|
Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150 
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
|
|
MichaelS5
(Florida)
Posts:6
|
| 05/31/2006 3:42 AM |
|
| At our meetings...which take place in Florida...we have an ex-board member with an ax to grind recording our every word..he then takes the recorder home and keeps the tapes for his personal property....does the board have any say in this matter...Thanx Mike Sacks |
|
|
|
|
RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
|
| 05/31/2006 6:57 AM |
|
| Michael, the Chairman at a Board meeting can require all recorders be turned off. Anyone who does not comply can be removed from the meeting if caught recording. This is not a public meeting, it is a private meeting which only members and their appointed representatives may attend. |
|
Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
|
|
WilliamT
(Arizona)
Posts:489
|
| 05/31/2006 7:34 AM |
|
I am a new board member of an HOA. I have stated that the previous boards had been negligent in allowing much maintenance to be deferred, such as iron fences not being painted, allowing them to become rotted to the point they must now be replaced. Pedestrian security gates badly in need of repair and inop combination locks.
In addition I complained that due to the low reserves we are in danger of having to have a special assessment for our future street repair/replacement. The reserve fund had dropped from 70% funded in 1997 to 24% funded in 2005. And the budget items do not differentiate between what is operational expense repair and what is a reserve expense.
Another new board member was elected at the same time I was. We received no documents; no educational material; and when we began to ask in email for documents the Pres said to not communicate in email except for emergencies, that we should bring all questions to the meeting 3 months later -- quarterly meetings. After finally quoting the document disclosure clauses of our bylaws, and demanding the MC to provide me with the documents that we needed, we finally got them.
Apparently, although there is no resolution on the books, the board had delegated the duties of chairperson and taking of the minutes to the MC. The MC runs the meeting and does not take written notes, and there is no audio recorder visible.
On the first meeting after the election, the president asked me to take the minutes. (The secretary was present, and was physically able to write.) I agreed to take the minutes for that meeting, and placed an audio recorder on the table. The MC stated that I had to make a motion to be allowed to record, so as to make sure all the board members were comfortable. I did, and the 4 incumbents voted NO, so I was not allowed to record for the purpose of taking the minutes.
Another motion that I made failed, and it became obvious that this was retalliation for speaking out about the neglected maintenance and reserve condition.
At the next meeting I was again asked to take the minutes, and I refused because I had not been allowed to audio record in order to aid in transcription.
I feel the board is acting childishly (although legally) by not allowing the person taking the minutes to make an audio recording, because it aids accuracy, and allows that person to concentrate more on the meeting.
In addition, our bylaws do not permit one person to perform the duties of two offices except for the Sec/Treas combination. So I believe it is not proper to allow an MC to perform the duties of Chairperson and Secretary at the same time.
I don't believe an MC should be taking minutes (even if not also acting as Chairperson) because if they are doing a good job of minute taking, they cannot concentrate on the meeting as they should. However, this MC does not take notes, apparently relying on memory to write the minutes later.
Am I wrong in my assumptions? |
|
|
|
|
MichaelS5
(Florida)
Posts:6
|
| 05/31/2006 9:18 AM |
|
| Roger....sorry.....I neglected to add that our board meetings in Florida consist of all who live in our community....the only time the members of the community speak is during "good and welfare". Therefore...it is not considered private...it is open...however...even if it is open to residents..should a resident be allowed to record or does he have to announce it and do we have the right to tell him to shut if off at that juncture? |
|
|
|
|
MichaelS5
(Florida)
Posts:6
|
| 05/31/2006 9:18 AM |
|
| Roger....sorry.....I neglected to add that our board meetings in Florida consist of all who live in our community....the only time the members of the community speak is during "good and welfare". Therefore...it is not considered private...it is open...however...even if it is open to residents..should a resident be allowed to record or does he have to announce it and do we have the right to tell him to shut if off at that juncture? |
|
|
|
|
RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
|
| 05/31/2006 9:46 AM |
|
Michael, yes the Chair or the Board can tell him to shut off the recorder. And can remove anyone who wiolate a Board meeting rule such as no recording is allowed. HOA meetings are private meetings because only members of the HOA and their appointed representatives may attend. This is in contrast to a public meeting where anyone can attend and record.
Just because a Board meeting is open to the members and does not give them the authority to audio record the meeting; restricting recording does not violate Florida law. |
|
Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
|
|
SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:194
|
| 05/31/2006 11:28 AM |
|
We had a Secretary who recorded our Board meetings and Annual General Meeting with an audio recorder and they were the most inaccurate minutes of our history. No more.
|
|
|
|
|
SwanB
(Washington)
Posts:194
|
| 05/31/2006 11:31 AM |
|
As the current Secretary, I find writing the minutes down sets a pace to the meetings for accuracy and circumspection. When I need clarification for my minute-taking because I am using the pen and paper technique, it allows the other members to review what they have heard and think about it.
This is valuable to the meeting format. |
|
|
|
|
CharlieT
(Texas)
Posts:12
|
| 06/01/2006 11:32 AM |
|
The following is an extract from HOA Statute 720:
RECORDING.--Any parcel owner may tape record or videotape meetings of the board of directors and meetings of the members. The board of directors of the association may adopt reasonable rules governing the taping of meetings of the board and the membership.
Charlie Tiano |
|
|
|
|
PaulM
(Pennsylvania)
Posts:1347
|
| 06/06/2006 5:35 AM |
|
| Roger, would you kindly advise how we can find out about PA law on tape recording conversations, or is law the same in all states? I understand from hoatalk.com that it is best to destroy the tape after the meeting minutes have been written. However, I would like to bring this to our Board's attention on what PA law states. Thank you. |
|
|
|
|
RogerB
(Colorado)
Posts:3726
|
| 06/06/2006 6:36 AM |
|
Paul, I am not familiar with the laws in PA on tape recording conversations. And a seach on google.com came up with nothing. If I were going to tape record I would make the other party aware of it in advance. You have probably made phone calls where this warning was given up front. When I take minutes at an HOA meeting I don't tape record. If I did, the recording would be erased immediately after typing the minutes based on what I heard an attorny in Colorado say in a seminar.
I know that many organizations do tape record meeting. The secretary did when I was President of our church council and when I was President of a professional society. I saw no improvements in the minutes by tape recording. IMO better minutes are created when the person preparing the minutes is knowledgeable in what needs to be in the minutes.
Enough on this ..... I have to get out the minutes of a Board meeting last night  |
|
Roger Borcherding
Official HOATalk.com Sponsor
DARCO Property Management (Colorado)
(303) 925-0150
*See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal |
|
|
GeraldT1
Posts:0
|
| 06/06/2006 11:55 AM |
|
| William - The MC has too many duties, and should be required to take the minutes, and provide them to the board for review to be ratified at each subsequent open meeting. The MC acting as secretary and chairperson?? Too many duties. The president chairs the meeting, not the MC. Minutes do not need to be verbatim. They should capture the essence of what is discussed, and really stick to the important board business. Detail on financials, motions made, resolutions passed, unit owner discussions are important. Sounds like you are outnumbered, and your noble intention of joining the board must be tempered by this inescapable reality. Gerald |
|
|
|
|
GeraldT1
Posts:0
|
| 06/06/2006 12:31 PM |
|
| RandyS - Tape recordings, even if permissible, can often hamper a meeting more than help it. Those present may be reluctant to communicate what's on their mind, not because they have something to hide, only because they are nervous. Thus defeating the importance of an open meeting as a learning experience. Minutes do not need to be verbatim, nor should they be. Good minutes balance high level information (financials, resolutions, motions, etc.) with general statements about the topics of discussion and the concerns presented. The minute taker is usually the MC and is a trained professional. My experience with bad minutes is that they often revise history, this being a flaw of the views of the minute taker. However, a strong and effective Board can curtail this and demand better. Recording the proceedings in my experience does not guarantee accuracy. Gerald |
|
|
|
|
WilliamT
(Arizona)
Posts:489
|
| 06/06/2006 1:08 PM |
|
Posted By GeraldT1 on 06/06/2006 12:31 PM
The minute taker is usually the MC and is a trained professional.
Check out this excerpt from the CAI training probrem for MC's. This is M100 - Essentials of Community Association Management.
CAI provides training and testing for the various management designations.
http://www.caionline.org/m100_excerpt.pdf
On page 15 of this pdf file it states that "As a community manager, you should NOT take the minutes at a board meeting. Your responsibility is to concentrate on the dynamics of the meeting in order to assist when needed. You cannot do that and take minutes at the same time."
It also states that the MC is a facilitator and should be careful to not take charge.
In my opinion, if an MC acts as chairperson, then s/he is taking charge instead of helping to train the president and board on how to conduct meetings.
Bill
|
|
|
|
|