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Subject: OH this one is a goodie.. Handle with kid gloves ?

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NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 7:08 AM
This is a goodie! One of our past HOA members was voted off this last election. She is best buddies with 2 out of 7 board members and volunteers on a committee. She is what I would consider a passive aggressive person often walking by those members she doesn't care for not awknowleging them unless they are with her 'friends". She is defintately what I would label "odd". She was witnessed yesterday by our current board president and another homeowner ( at the same time) sweeping off her dog's excrement / feces off her 4th floor balcony to land in the back of the building.... NICE! Most petowners just pooper scoop and pick up. This is a huge deal to me personally as this gal knows better, and knows how hard it is to serve on the board. To blatently do this I feel is her "passive aggressive" ways in action. I totally support a letter going to her along with the details of her action. I think it's sad and really quite an insight to this one. A letter out to this one may cause a rift amongst the board, but I am in support of this one. It's a health hazard and sure has contributed to our fly issues.

JohnM3
(Florida)

Posts:208

07/21/2008 8:08 AM
Nicole it's so easy to take care of Mrs Pooper Scooper. Its almost funny. First of all stop being a nice neighbor understand something you are running a business time to act like it. Call the office and then call the local board of health. But do it easyly. Time to invest in a small digital camera. Confusis say 1 picture equals 10,000 words.......... Take the picture and email it with a discription and address to the local city commisioner for your area and to the Board Of Health as well as the County EPA........ She is a slob time to address the situation of being a slob fixer upper..............................

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

07/21/2008 8:37 AM
Nicole, "Dear Blah, Blah, " Having been on the Board and knowing how hard it is to enforce the pet poop pick up rule, we would think that you are aware of this. You have been observed sweeping your dog excrement, over the balcony and we are sure that you know that this is totally unacceptable conduct. Please refrain from doing this again as it is a fineble offense and this Board will enforce the matter with our full ability." Don't be nice. This is childish and lazy behavior on her part.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:568

07/21/2008 8:49 AM
Out of curiousity, was Ms. Poopie voted off the Board or simply not re-elected? In either case, her pique needs to also be picked up with the scooper. Be firm and non-emotional with her, but do folow through with sanctions.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:483

07/21/2008 9:06 AM
You could always return her "property" to her. Ok, we don't need to go there again. I agree though that this is something that should be called in to the health dept. The Board could also send her a letter, but the health dept. needs to be called. I sure wouldn't want to be one of the homeowners who live under her.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/21/2008 9:19 AM
I don't think you need kid gloves...replace her with any other member of the community. Then ask yourself what would you do if Jane Doe did that, then proceed with that action.

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1866

07/21/2008 11:32 AM
Two things, First, of course you can and should enforce against her as you would any other resident, board member, former board member, passive/aggressive, blatant confrontationalist, or not. Second, it's pointless and petty to assign "intent" to her actions since it says more about the one ascribing it than it does about the offender. She is doing something both tacky and against the rules. Going that one-step further and saying it's because she is passive-aggressive and doesn't verbally acknowledge people she doesn't like, etc etc etc simply lowers it to a personal level and, frankly, is unnecessary. We can only guess "why" she does it. The fact that she "does do it" is disgusting enough and definitely behavior that needs to be halted. I'm not a big fan of the "poisoning the well" school of criticism against people. It's neither important nor relevant whether she acknowledges others nor what her past relationship with the board is or was. One doesn't need to embellish about someone who sweeps dog poop off a balcony onto lower areas. That act alone pretty much speaks for itself against that person! One also doesn't need to go into the "tsk tsk tsk you should know better" tactic in the letter to her. Simply addressing the behavior in writing, pointing out its violation(s), and formally requesting that it stop is all that's needed. As much as possible, remove the "personal" edge from the issue. It's not "personal." It's business. And the business is that one resident is violating both health codes and the covenants. Everything else, or rather anything else, making it "personal" will dilute your efforts. The "friends" on the board cannot complain (well, they can, but they will have no solid ammunition) if the situation is handled professionally and in a manner that can never be interpreted as a personal vendetta of any kind.

NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 1:34 PM
Posted By MicheleD on 07/21/2008 11:32 AM Two things, First, of course you can and should enforce against her as you would any other resident, board member, former board member, passive/aggressive, blatant confrontationalist, or not. Second, it's pointless and petty to assign "intent" to her actions since it says more about the one ascribing it than it does about the offender. She is doing something both tacky and against the rules. Going that one-step further and saying it's because she is passive-aggressive and doesn't verbally acknowledge people she doesn't like, etc etc etc simply lowers it to a personal level and, frankly, is unnecessary. We can only guess "why" she does it. The fact that she "does do it" is disgusting enough and definitely behavior that needs to be halted. I'm not a big fan of the "poisoning the well" school of criticism against people. It's neither important nor relevant whether she acknowledges others nor what her past relationship with the board is or was. One doesn't need to embellish about someone who sweeps dog poop off a balcony onto lower areas. That act alone pretty much speaks for itself against that person! One also doesn't need to go into the "tsk tsk tsk you should know better" tactic in the letter to her. Simply addressing the behavior in writing, pointing out its violation(s), and formally requesting that it stop is all that's needed. As much as possible, remove the "personal" edge from the issue. It's not "personal." It's business. And the business is that one resident is violating both health codes and the covenants. Everything else, or rather anything else, making it "personal" will dilute your efforts. The "friends" on the board cannot complain (well, they can, but they will have no solid ammunition) if the situation is handled professionally and in a manner that can never be interpreted as a personal vendetta of any kind. I agree with you to a point here. I see where you would think I might think it's a personal vendetta, but your input on the personal spin of things is a bit over the top. The homeowner has tyes to the board, is friends with 2 of the 7 ( what makes you think that I may not be one of those 2.. yes, she talks to me all the time! ) So... my concern is that this is a bad situation giving that truely she knows better..... and she knows this kind of behavior will land her with a letter or a meeting to discuss why she is doing this..

MicheleD
(Kentucky)

Posts:1866

07/21/2008 1:50 PM
Nicole, I would be inclined to agree with you that my comments might be over the top had you not included the following in your "report" on what is going down: "She is what I would consider a passive aggressive person often walking by those members she doesn't care for not awknowleging them unless they are with her 'friends". She is defintately what I would label "odd"." And: "To blatently do this I feel is her "passive aggressive" ways in action. " Has nothing to do with the violation. Maybe it is her passive/aggressive way, and maybe you do feel that way, but it's not really relevant. Now had you limited your personal take on the situation to this: "This is a huge deal to me personally as this gal knows better, and knows how hard it is to serve on the board." Even letting us know she's a former board member or officer, well, those would have been fair comments. But the other comments were simply "poison the well" types of comments (embellishments designed to diminish her in value to us before we even hear the details) and not really needed to make an assessment of whether a violation letter is "fair." I don't mean to be harsh, this is just a pet peeve of mine, probably coming from my background in journalism. I know it's hard not to "editorialize" sometimes, but it doesn't really add what was intended to be added and can sometimes backfire. I mean, seriously, someone who does that sort of thing with dog poop is pretty disgusting all on their lonesome! LOL. I mean, she could be a Mother Teresa clone in every other way, and I'd consider her a disgusting person! Anyway, it goes without saying she needs a letter. Just stick to the facts and don't do any finger waving or "you should know better." Heck. We KNOW she knows better! A TEN-YEAR-OLD would know better!

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:140

07/21/2008 2:15 PM
Posted By NicoleO4 ...yes, she talks to me all the time! Why not just talk to her and find out what the deal is?

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

07/21/2008 3:04 PM
Tony, If indeed she is that "kind " of person , chances are she will get all bent at being accused of doing such a dastardly deed. Keep this on the professional/Board level and let a letter come from the association.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:140

07/21/2008 3:32 PM
Aren't some of the characteristics of a president being- someone who takes charge and is willing to say what needs to be said when it needs saying? If the president witnesses this act why not be proactive and say something then and there or at least knock on the door and inquire? Maybe it was an accident. I would think that someone who was going to purposely do that would at least look to see if they were going to get away with it. Something smells rotten and it ain't the feces.

EllenS1
(Florida)

Posts:400

07/21/2008 3:58 PM
Michele, I agree with you that enforcing covenants should never be personal. It should have nothing to do with the person but only their actions. If she is violating a covenant follow whatever your docs state. Who is friends with whom has absolutely nothing to do with the facts. Suppose a police officer gave a ticket for someone speeding..does he include on the ticket that this person is passive/agressive since they smiled while I was writing them up and they also mentioned they had friends in high places?

NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 4:58 PM
It's been handled. Our management company did indeed mail out a letter today. It's just suprising to me that even such an odd person would do this... and the board as a whole at this HOA has asked for this kind of infractions to be dealt with through our management company to take the personal accusation off of it. This old board member does have it out for a few people on the board and having one of them go to the door of her is asking for a potentially volatile sitation.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2951

07/21/2008 5:38 PM
Nicole, I know that we have some of our regular posters who want to keep this type of situation on a more personal, friendly way to deal with it, will disagree with me but the reason that you have a P.M or management company is to handle these types of matters. It takes the personalness out of the situation. When it is violations, it is best to let the people who get paid and don't live among the offenders to handle the unpleasant work.

NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 5:43 PM
Donna you are right on this one. Its a very bad awkward situation from my end any way. You can think someone is odd, be passive agreesive or whatever.. and still have a civil interaction with them...... but knocking on her door and asking why is she flinging poo off her balcony is immediatly going to get you a reaction that I personally don't want to be on the other end of! I agree with our other board members to have the PM send a letter and we will follow up after that.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:140

07/21/2008 5:58 PM
The burden of proof still falls on the HOA and if the situation escalates, given the bad blood, it would have been smarter had the President said something when witnessing the act.

NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 7:10 PM
Well, it was witnessed by another independent homeowner as well... so it's more than likely not going to happen again once we put them on notice don't you think?

NicoleO4

Posts:0

07/21/2008 7:10 PM
Well, it was witnessed by another independent homeowner as well... so it's more than likely not going to happen again once we put them on notice don't you think?

GlenL
(Ohio)

Posts:1470

07/21/2008 9:44 PM
The woman's idiosyncrasies aside, hasn't anyone else here done something stupid out of frustration? I'm not saying she was right in what she allegedly did and I do believe she should get a letter from the MC. But let's not call it a malicious act until all the proof is in. The OP herself is reporting something somebody else told her that yet another person did.

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

07/22/2008 6:09 AM
I agree with Glen and Donna...No one knows (maybe this woman has no idea either) why she did what she did. The only fact that is relevant is that she did it, it makes no difference when, why and how, just that it was done. If you have PM or management company let them do their job. She is just another homeowner, send a letter like you would to anyone else. Let the gossip, friendly chatter or personal attacks for the next community outing.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:140

07/22/2008 10:55 AM
Posted By BradP The only fact that is relevant is that she did it... If you're inclined to believe hearsay.

JohnK3
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:568

07/22/2008 11:25 AM
If Nicole says (in a court of law) President said to me "I saw Ms. Poopie sweep the junk off her balcony", that's hearsay and probably inadmissible upon objection. If President says (in a court of law) "I saw Ms. Poopie sweep the junk off her balcony", that's evidence and probably admissible. Hope things don't get that far, though.

TonyM3
(Arizona)

Posts:140

07/22/2008 9:58 PM
Posted By JohnK3 on 07/22/2008 11:25 AM If President says (in a court of law) "I saw Ms. Poopie sweep the junk off her balcony", that's evidence and probably admissible. That cross examination could turn into a Perry Mason episode.

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Forums > Homeowner Association > HOA Discussions > OH this one is a goodie.. Handle with kid gloves ?