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KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 8:16 AM
Hi again, Since people on here are so awesome with their advice, I thought I would run this by everyone I'm starting from scratch on our Rules and Regualtions. Being a newbie, I was wonderinng what are some good basics to have? I know every community needs to have R&R specific to their needs, but I would like to hear about what you guys & gals thought were some really useful rules. Any help appreciated!

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2792

01/24/2008 8:38 AM
Hi Krysta, The first place that you reference is your Restrictive Covenants, That will spell out most of everything that you will need to transfer to a rules and regulations format. Example, the cov might say no nuisance activity. To put this in a rule form, you would write, no nuisance activities including, , no playing in the driveways no noxious odors, nor creation of noise or other conditions that will or might disturb the peace, quiet safety comfort or serenity of the occupants of the surrounding units. Pets, No pets other than normal household pets such as cats, dogs and birds may be kept within the association property. Such pets will be leashed at all times when outside and may not be housed outside of the dwelling. These are just an example. Use your covenants for a guideline and look up other association rules and regs.

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 8:57 AM
Do the R&R's clarify the existly CC&R's or can I make new rules altogether? Ex: Seniors complain about basketball goals in yards, younger families want basketball goals. Our CCR's say nothing about them either way, and I can see both side's arguement. Can the BOD make a rule that basketball goals are allowed as long they are temp. not permanent, cannot be out overnight, and are stored in a spot not seen from the road?

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

01/24/2008 9:12 AM
KrystaT: Be careful when allowing 'things' which are not listed as part of your CC&Rs, such as basketball goals. When considering this, you must look at the whole picture of what basketball goals (or whatever else may be allowed) would bring to the community--some of which might be: groups of young people congregating/playing, balls rolling into the street (traffic problems?) and other owners yards, accelerated noise (nuisance?), etc. Not stating that a community should not have basketball goals--only that you must consider all the ramifications that come with them, think it through carefully and set rules accordingly, BEFORE the problems occur.

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 9:29 AM
We have a very diverse group of homeowners, who all see things a little differently. I would like to neutralize these long drawn out fights that come up at EVERY meeting. We have a decent amount of kids who live here. I have 3 children, and I am only 29 myself.(and will be for the rest of my life) But I can see the point of concern that swing sets, basketball goals etc. don't do much for property value. My goal is to come up with a middle ground to try to make everyone happy. Our CCR's don't say you can't have a basketball goal, but people complain they shouldn't be allowed. A temporary goal would be an ideal comprimise in my opinion. It's not seen all the time, yet kids can still play. The BOD's agenda is to come up with rules to protect property values, but still allow the majority of familes with children enjoyment too.

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 9:36 AM
Another example, Christmas lights....Some people think Christmas lights should be taken down the day after Christmas, but we have Latin familes that celerate 3 the kings and don't take their lights down until the middle of Jan. Then there's some lazy people who try to keep them up forever!!! We would like to see a rule where all lights should be down by Jan.15. Comprimise to some, and a way to keep lazy people from making our neighborhood look uncared for.

GeraldT4

Posts:932

01/24/2008 10:39 AM
Posted By KrystaT on 01/24/2008 9:36 AM Another example, Christmas lights....Some people think Christmas lights should be taken down the day after Christmas, but we have Latin familes that celerate 3 the kings and don't take their lights down until the middle of Jan. Then there's some lazy people who try to keep them up forever!!! We would like to see a rule where all lights should be down by Jan.15. Comprimise to some, and a way to keep lazy people from making our neighborhood look uncared for. KrystaT - Your scenario regarding lights is interesting. Based upon it, it seems you have no holiday lighting/decoration rules. Now, if you create a rule where all lights should be down by Jan. 15 than you are giving Christians and those that celebrate and decorate for Christmas 15 days to take their lights down. If the end of the Latin 3 kings holiday is Jan. 15 than can't it be perceived you are discriminating against those that celebrate and decorate that holiday because all those that celebrate and decorate for Christmas get 15 days after that holiday, but the all those that celebrate and decorate for Latin 3 kings only have 1 day after that holiday to remove their decorations? I believe that basketball hoops, swings, holiday decorations, all cc&r's, and any amenity or recreation structure promotes community spirit and in that way actually can benefit property values.

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 11:22 AM
Well, when I said Latin people in our community I WAS including myself. My husband is Puerto Rican. It's not religious discrimination, it would be ethnical, since it's mostly Latin/Spanish peoples who celebrate the holiday that ARE Christians. Also known as The Epiphany, Three Kings Day (Día de los Reyes) is a Christian celebration that commemorates the Biblical story of the three kings who followed the star of Bethlehem to bring gifts to the Christ child. Putting it the way you did, it's true, we would be giving some Christians more time to take down their lights. But since Christmas is Dec. 25 and 3 Kings Day is Jan. 6 there will ALWAYS be more time for some Christians to take down their lights, there's no way around it. Our suggestion on "Holiday" decorations/lights is to be hung no earlier than 1 week before Thanksgiving, and to be taken down by Jan. 15. That would cover Hannukah, Christmas, Yule, Kwanzaa and 3 Kings. I too believe that a community can benefit from diversity, but it's not up to ONLY me. I like to see kids running around and playing, but it's not my personal opinion that counts, it's everyones. If we can come up with some comprimises and r&r's that protect everyone's interests shouldn't that be our BOD's goal? But we've gone off my original question.....Since there's no mention of any of these issues or others we have in any of our doc. (not bylaws, art. of inc or CCR's) is it ok to make rules about this? Are rules limited to what's already mentioned in the doc.s?

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 11:22 AM
Well, when I said Latin people in our community I WAS including myself. My husband is Puerto Rican. It's not religious discrimination, it would be ethnical, since it's mostly Latin/Spanish peoples who celebrate the holiday that ARE Christians. Also known as The Epiphany, Three Kings Day (Día de los Reyes) is a Christian celebration that commemorates the Biblical story of the three kings who followed the star of Bethlehem to bring gifts to the Christ child. Putting it the way you did, it's true, we would be giving some Christians more time to take down their lights. But since Christmas is Dec. 25 and 3 Kings Day is Jan. 6 there will ALWAYS be more time for some Christians to take down their lights, there's no way around it. Our suggestion on "Holiday" decorations/lights is to be hung no earlier than 1 week before Thanksgiving, and to be taken down by Jan. 15. That would cover Hannukah, Christmas, Yule, Kwanzaa and 3 Kings. I too believe that a community can benefit from diversity, but it's not up to ONLY me. I like to see kids running around and playing, but it's not my personal opinion that counts, it's everyones. If we can come up with some comprimises and r&r's that protect everyone's interests shouldn't that be our BOD's goal? But we've gone off my original question.....Since there's no mention of any of these issues or others we have in any of our doc. (not bylaws, art. of inc or CCR's) is it ok to make rules about this? Are rules limited to what's already mentioned in the doc.s?

TracyT
(Maryland)

Posts:220

01/24/2008 12:16 PM
Krysta, Some one posted their guideline docs on here a couple of weeks ago (I don't remember the title of the post but check back a couple of pages). Re: holiday decorations, our GL says they can't go up prior to 30 days before and must come down 30 days after. Does your CCR have restrictions on play equipment? Not visible from the roads/right of way? Basketball hoops would be play equipment (I no have idea how some many in our HOA got permanent ones approved in their front yard :-o!).

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2792

01/24/2008 12:25 PM
Krysta, To answer your original question, YES!! you can write R.& R's for anything that you want ---AS LONG AS THEY DO NOT CHANGE OR CONFLICT WITH THE PROTECTIVE COVENANTS. You might have a nuisance covenant and see what it says. Then you can allow basketball hoops and nets, etc. BUT, do not forget that there will be a strong block of residents who do not want them. Holiday ights is another R.&R. that you can regulate. Not before Dec 1st and must be down by Jan 15th is what we wrote. We did not specify Xmas, but call it holiday lights. Golf carts on the roadways were banned. Fl law does not allow them on the streets unless they are street worthy and have lights and other legal requirements so we said--no golf carts. Also, no more than 2 resident cars parked on a daily basis in the driveways. We have 3 car garages and people with 5 cars parked ACROSS the sidewalks because of the large amount of cars. Or No Blocking the Sidewalks with vehicles. I could go on for a while but other posters will ahve many items to add. But remember, this is not going to be liked by everyone. Keep a fair balance so that everyone can abide by them and each developement has it's own issues to deal with. Good Luck

KrystaT
(Florida)

Posts:56

01/24/2008 1:05 PM
Thanks Donna and Tracy, I saw on another post someone said r&r's had to be based on your bylaws and I didn't know if I had it right. I started this post because I sat down to work on some r&r's and came up with only 3. Lights, basketball goals and fences. So I had to find out what Donna thought! This website becomes addicting, you're thinking.."hhmmm...I don't know, what would DonnaS say?"

GeraldT4

Posts:932

01/24/2008 1:15 PM
KrystaT - Taking all the ethnicity and religious aspect (if any) out of the holiday decoration matter is important when it comes to rule making. It's the act of decorating the common elements, and areas that are in view of the association itself that is within the realm of association jurisdiction and therefore concern. Clearly you are sensitive to this and one of the best, if not the best person in your association to help develop these rules, or create committees of volunteers to accomplish the matter. That said, according to your post it seems all in your assoc. are treated equal in that they have the same time period of opportunity to decorate for Hannukah, Christmas, Yule, Kwanzaa and 3 Kings. But, those in your assoc. that decorate for Christmas have 21 days after the holiday to take there decorations down. Those that decorate for 3 Kings have 12 days after the holiday to take their decorations down. Just based upon numbers alone, there can be no dispute that those that decorate for 3 Kings get 9 less days to take their decorations down. Now you might not ever get any complaints (of discrimination) about the matter. Lord knows 9 days after a holiday gives me personally more than enough time to take my decorations down, weather permitting of course. But, I post the above matter for the only purpose to evidence that these are the kinds of things that need to be considered in rule making. It is not as easy as it may seem, I know from experience.

DonnaS
(Tennessee)

Posts:2792

01/24/2008 1:37 PM
It's me again, Yes, there are going to be some items in the ByLaws that you can also use and they are usually just a better definition of covenants. You can use any of your documents for Rules and Regs. Just not conflict or lessening of them. An example of lessening. The Covenants say "NO TRUCKS ALLOWED TO BE PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAYS." The Board decides to write "NO TRUCKS PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAYS EXCEPT DURING THE HOURS OF 8AM TO 8PM or anything else. This contradicts the original cov. Thanks for the input on what I think that I enjoy doing and hope that most of my experience helps others.

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