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Subject: Sleepless Nights over Trucks in Driveways

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AndrewB1
(Florida)

Posts:2

08/08/2006 6:52 PM
Hello. We are an 18 month old H.O.A. in Florida with a restriction limiting trucks to being parked in garages only. The problem is, several homeowners have trucks that are too long to fit in their garages, and have resorted to parking them in their driveways. (2 open bed pick-ups and 1 older pick-up with a topper enclosure over the bed). The homeowners were aware of the covenants and restrictions prior to signing contracts with the builder. One homeowner even went the extra mile to re-design the garage, prior to construction, so that the opening would be higher to allow clearance for the vehicle, however, the garage is too short in length by about 2 inches! Frankly, I'm not sure how the builder got away with claiming that these are 2-car garages--maybe for 2 compact volksvagons! Anyway, the homeowners in violation received a 2 week warning notice, with the right to a hearing, prior to being served any fines, as is legal protocol in Florida. The homeowners appeared before the 'fines and violations committee' to have their say. They pleaded with the committee to allow them to hold a meeting with all the homeowners (6 weeks from now), where they will hold a vote to amend this restriction to allow trucks in driveways. The committee agreed to suspend any fines until after the September meeting where the restriction will be voted on. One of the Homeowners in violation remarked that if the rule does not get changed to her favor, she will take legal proceedings in an attempt to change/over-ride this restriction in order that her truck be allowed to remain in her driveway. (Not that it matters, but the truck is very old, it was a gift which they did not pay for, it is driven 1-2 times per month as they have 2 other vehicles, and it is an eye-sore with its aging exterior and fading paint). We have only 19 homes in this association, and would need 7 votes in favor of maintaining the restriction as it stands, in order to prevent the rule from being changed. However, if they are serious, we could still end up in court over this. Any feedback from anyone who has experiencedf anything similiar, would be much appreciated. We feel the larger issue here is that we are losing friendly neighbors, as this has created much tension and stress on the block. 5 or 6 of the 19 homeowners have spent so much time and energy in trying to work this out in a fair,sensible way that pleases everyone,but we are at a loss. Does anyone have any experience with a case like this going to court; and, if so, what was the outcome? Any feedback or thoughts regarding a compromise, such as allowing current trucks that are too high or too long to fit in the garage, to be able to be parked in the driveway, as long as the next vehicle purchased to replace the truck, would have to fit in the garage? Your thoughts, suggestions, comments would be much appreciated. Thank you in advance.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

08/08/2006 7:28 PM
Andrew, you didn't say whether the restriction was in your Declaration or in your Rules and Regulations. If it is in the Rules and Regs I would suggest changing the rule to allow parking in the driveway. Otherwise the HOA could easily lose if this went to court. I don't think a judge would find the rule to be reasonable. If the restriction is in the Declaration a judge might find in favor of the HOA.

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

AndrewB1
(Florida)

Posts:2

08/08/2006 8:01 PM
Hi Roger. Thank you for your prompt response to my call for help! The Vehicle Parking and Storage restriction that doesnot allow trucks to be parked in driveways is in our Declaration of Protective Covenants,Conditions and Restrictions. It is an Article under Land Use Restrictions: Association Restrictions. It reads as follows: Vehicle Parking and Storage: No trucks, commercial vans, unlicensed vehicles, boats, campers, trailers, mobile homes, motor homes, or other such vehicles shall be parked at any time upon any portion of a lot unless parked within a garage and totally out of view. This restriction shall not prohibit the temporary parking of commercial vehicles making deliveries, or while used in connection with providing services to any unit. No owner shall park, store or keep any vehicle on a yard, any roadways or common area. (please note, this is a residential home subdivision, and not a condominium or any other type of develpment). Thank you for your input.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

08/08/2006 11:06 PM
Hello Andrew - This is a very common problem. It is the builders who have these restrictions written into the CC&Rs, but then they build such tiny garages that can't accommodate these newer, longer vehicles. Then they leave this mess for the homeowner's BOD to handle. (I wonder if your builder enforced that rule while he controlled the HOA?) And then too, they write restrictions against building outside storage buildings so people have to use at least part of the garage for storage. Fortunately we don't restrict driveway parking (just street parking) or 90% of our residents would be in deep doo-doo. I prefer my vehicles inside, so the last car we bought I requested to drive it home and see if it would fit in our garage. I need a tennis ball hanging down from the ceiling to touch the windshield to know I have cleared the door. It is that tight. As it is, my older vehicle, a van, has permanent scratches on the bumper from the garage door closing. I guess this doesn't help your situation but maybe gives you some compassion for the dilemma your neighbors have. I wonder if anyone has ever sued a builder for writing such restrictions and then building such tiny garages that won't accommodate current vehicles. It is not even rational. Harold

CharlesW1
(Georgia)

Posts:820

08/09/2006 4:59 AM
Hello Andrew, I’m new to this discussion board. I have read a majority of the post and responses given. As someone had posted already, yes it is pretty much an on going ordeal, to say the least. My wife and I made sure our cars would fit. If the wouldn’t we wouldn’t have moved in. With that being said, I will now ask you for some clarification. Do I understand you correctly when you say the HO can not park in the driveway? If so as a HO, I would be a little upset as well. In my sub-division there is no parking in the street, for any extended period of time. I’m glad they have that in the CC&Rs, because it is a very serious safety issue for the entire community. That couldn’t have been enforced otherwise! The owners of such vehicles couldn’t really deny the fact that is was unsafe either. First let me say this, I feel that these HO knew far enough in advance if their vehicles were going to fit prior to moving in. Right!? But, I would have to say as a HO if the BOD told me I couldn’t park in my driveway, well then I would tell them to go suck an egg. I have too. It’s my driveway! My vehicle is question will not fit in the garage. That’s like tell someone you can’t “crap” in a toilet. That’s one of the most ridiculous things I had ever heard of! COME ON! I guess I would try to amend the CC&R’s to permit such vehicles to be parked in the driveways and not in the street. If the vehicles physically don’t fit in the garages, that’s one thing. But if it’s just extremely close fit, then unfortunately the HO would have to make it work or be fined! I have responded to many posts from others describing how much room they literally have to park in their garages and its close for sure, but it would be possible. Good luck and keep us posted Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.

BrianB
(California)

Posts:1748

08/09/2006 4:37 PM
charles, i believe the idea that an HOA would rule against allowing a property owner to park in their own driveway is the main reason most people think a judge would rule against the HOA. Granted, many HOAs have just such a rule, however, I can easily imagine a judge ruling against an HOA because that rule fails his common sense/fair play test. So, i would advise getting a nice, solid rule in place you can enforce and defend, and not fighting the court battle. Instinct says you stand a good chance of losing, should you appear before a judge.

JosephW
(Michigan)

Posts:787

08/09/2006 9:20 PM
Tow items, the first is a similar story in Florida, but I wasn't able to find the outcome yet. http://www.ccfj.net/HOAFLparkingban.html From an article by Robert Nelson ("The Private Neigborhood"), I found this which has a closer bearing: "In other cases, courts have simply ruled that actions of neighborhood associations have been too intrusive without any reasonable basis. A court thus overturned a neighborhood rule to ban the parking of a small noncommercial pickup truck in a driveway when an ordinary car would have been allowed under association rules in exactly the same place.T he court reasoned that “cultural perceptions” change and neighborhoods must adjust; in recent years, light trucks have come to no longer have a “pejorative connotation.”For many people,they are now considered rather fashionable — perhaps even the contem-porary social “equivalent of a convertible in earlier years,” the court noted. Hence, the court ruled, it was altogether unreasonable for the association to ban the parking of a small pick-up truck in a driveway within the neighborhood." If your rules allow cars to park in the driveway, then a court would probably find trucks acceptable. If no parking was allowed in the driveway, you would probably have a decent case. Joe

Joseph West Official HOATalk.com Sponsor Community Associations Network, LLC www.CommunityAssociations.net *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

BradP
(Kansas)

Posts:1742

08/10/2006 7:52 AM
Personally I think any rule that does not allow people to park personal vehicles in their driveway is ridiculous. I can see restricting commercial vehicles, campers, boats, etc. But to me cars parked in a driveway should not be a big deal.

RogerB
(Colorado)

Posts:3724

08/10/2006 9:05 AM
Brad, your comment illustrates why it is difficult to enforce restrictions. I know of many single family HOAs that think this is a BIG DEAL. "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder"

Roger Borcherding Official HOATalk.com Sponsor DARCO Property Management (Colorado) (303) 925-0150 *See legal notice below (end of page) or go to www.hoatalk.com/legal

CalvinC
(Florida)

Posts:20

08/10/2006 1:24 PM
I personally think garages are made for your vehicles and not all of the junk people store in them.............But anyway........ ;) I didn't read if it was a gated community? The problem is that if it isn't then they can just park on the street.

VinceM
(Florida)

Posts:15

08/10/2006 2:03 PM
we had the exact issue all it will do is put more stress on the bod, i know that one man.s treasure is not that of another inother words the $25000is ones treasure the $300 is anothers all beying not = we went to court and lost if it does come to that call a special meeting vote on it remend the restrictions and if it goes for leaveing them out. put in above all height and weight restrictions or you will have big foot liveing in you,re hood

TerryL
(California)

Posts:23

08/10/2006 4:13 PM
Our HOA has been through lawsuits - several of them. Let me tell you - if you think it's stressful to see a beat up truck in someone's driveway, you will find a whole new level of stress when the bills from the HOA's attorney start piling up and special assessments loom large on the horizon to pay them. There are many hills worth dying on, but I do not think that driveway parking (be it a truck or a car) is a battle that is worth fighting. I think what's best is to change whatever rules or covenants you need to change in order to make it "legal" for homeowners to park trucks in the driveway. It's just not worth going to court over. For what it's worth, that's my opinion.

HaroldS
(Arizona)

Posts:904

08/10/2006 4:15 PM
Terry - how were your court cases decided? Harold

TerryL
(California)

Posts:23

08/10/2006 4:23 PM
Harold, the court cases were not over parking, they were over drainage issues. Basically, the HOA lost both of the cases. The HOA was found negligent for improper handling of runoff water from a common area slope, and its drainage system was completely inadequate. We were put under a court order to beef up the system, which we did. In my opinion, we got off easy because we were only ordered to pay for actual damages to the homes that got flooded. Our liability insurance paid for the attorney's fees of one of the Plaintiffs, but not the attorney's fees of the HOA's attorneys. That's what our special assessment was for, and it was painful.

MiaL
(Florida)

Posts:10

08/12/2006 8:02 PM
I live in Florida, too. The Board of Directors may not just change the declaration/restriction. All changes must be made by a community vote. We have the homeowner who wants a declaration/restriction changed to present a petition of at least 20% of the community to the Board. After that, the Board would determine that it qualifies for a community vote. Our voting is done at a General Meeting. A quorum of 1/3 of the entire community must be in attendance or provide proxy before voting can begin. Our bylaws require a 2/3 approval vote to make any changes. Please see your documents to see what is required for your community. If the required amount of people are looking for an amendment, you are obligated to change the declaration/restriction. You must then file the paperwork with your county and with the State. If you are not working with an attorney, it's a good idea to hire one on an "as needed" basis. Make sure they are well versed in Homeowner Association laws. Good Luck!!!

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