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DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:475

03/02/2007 7:58 AM
I recently overhauled our HOA website and added some features such as online forums, polls, calendars, etc. Stuff that I would hope would help improve communications within the community. While I was in the process of doing this overhaul, I looked around at some other HOA websites (including some from the people in this forum) and using them as an example, I included a "Terms of Use" page and a "Privacy Statement" page. Before taking the website "live", I asked the other Board members to review it. I am the President of the Board. One of the other Board members has managed to hold up the release of the website because he objects to a couple of statements in the Terms and Privacy pages. In particular, he objected to the "automatic collection of information about your computer hardware and software, including IP address, browser software, domain names, ...". His claim is that we have no business asking for that type of information. I've tried to explain that that information is just part of how the Web works and doesn't really identify an individual, but he doesn't want to believe me. He also objected to the disclaimer where it says that we are not responsible for the content on third party sites that may be linked to from our website. He states that if that is the case, then we shouldn't have any links to any third party sites. In my mind that would kind of defeat some of the usefulness of a web site. I would think that we would want to have links to other resources in the community. And finally, he doesn't want the website to have community forums, even in a password-protected area. I've had homeowners ask for things like forums and bulletin boards to allow them to post things like "For Sale" notices or school events or similar. But as far as this board member is concerned, the website should only be used to communicate from the Board to the HOA members without giving the members the ability to communicate among themselves or back to the Board. He thinks that having something like a discussion forum or any other means for the homeowners to post content will cause the website to turn into another "MySpace" or similar. I'm not even sure why that would automatically be a "bad" thing. For now, we have held up the release of the web site until an attorney has reviewed those pages (an expense I think we could have done without), but I have a feeling that he will have more objections once the attorney has given his input. Any thoughts on how to handle this?

JoeW1
(New York)

Posts:728

03/02/2007 8:16 AM
DwightT - if the Board member doesn't understand that information can be automatically collected, get an expert to explain the process. As for the inclusion of a forum on a website, I would not advise it, password protected or not. You are opening up the possibility of opinions and non-factual information being disseminated to the community about the community. Not a good idea. IMO the information an HOA should sponsor and publish should be in minutes that are ratified, and information that is shared in community meetings.

PaulM
(Pennsylvania)

Posts:1347

03/02/2007 9:51 AM
In response to these statements: ...'we are not responsible for the content on third party sites that may be linked to from our website. He states that if that is the case, then we shouldn't have any links to any third party sites.' It is evident HOAtalk is using the links to third party sites as a tool to promote specific helps to the poster; IMO, I don't think any of us would hold HOAtalk responsible for content stated or used incorrectly,however a disclaimer from HOA talk would cover all bases. ...'I've had homeowners ask for things like forums and bulletin boards to allow them to post things like "For Sale" notices or school events or similar.' -I definitely would not want to see this on HOAtalk; I feel it would reduce the credibility and professionalism of this site. There are plenty of other outlets for this 'news'--HOAtalk is not one of them. ...'He thinks that having something like a discussion forum or any other means for the homeowners to post content will cause the website to turn into another "MySpace" or similar.' It is true that some postings have clear rumblings of an individual on their 'soapbox'...however, this site has been a tremendous help to many of us who want to learn about community living as well as new regulations on the horizon. I feel it would be helpful and important for all posters to: -at the very START OF THE POST TO LIST THE STATE in which their community resides. -be aware in their responses to others that state regulations vary and CC&Rs vary; we can share what 'we have found to be true'...but we cannot speculate on how it SHOULD BE for everyone else across the U.S. -show respect in all postings; no one has all the answers, we are all learning together. Thanks to ALL at HOAtalk for this wonderful site. PaulM

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

03/02/2007 12:33 PM
[quote]Posted By JoeW1 on 03/02/2007 8:16 AM ............ As for the inclusion of a forum on a website, I would not advise it, password protected or not. You are opening up the possibility of opinions and non-factual information being disseminated to the community about the community. Not a good idea. ......... [/quote] I agree. I suppose every association has one or more "nut cases", I know we do. A lady went around the neighborhood pinning inflamatory letters on everyone's mailbox post. She offered to send e-mails and I gave her my address just to keep track of what she was sending out. I would have hated to give her access to post her rants on the association web page. Think long and hard before you do this.

Ron SC

PaulH3
(Connecticut)

Posts:29

03/02/2007 12:42 PM
Dwight, Without reading it, it sounds to me like you have a pretty standard privacy policy. Tell this person to read the policy statements on google, CNN, and whitehouse.gov. Then ask if he has a problem with their privacy statements. In regards to the disclaimer about content on third-party sites that you link to, ask if he would like to expose the association if one site that you innocently link to gets their domain name acquired by a poacher and now links to what used to be your local hardware store to a porn site. If it is that big a concern, you may be better off without links. Now, the question about forums. I'm sure that a lot of people here have the opinion that they are: not worth it, troublesome, a lot of work, etc. However, my belief is that the association needs to establish a forum which is private and under their control to give the owners a venue. If the association does not do this, be assured that someone eventually will, probably by using something like Yahoo or Google Groups. My opinion is that it is better to have these discussions "behind closed doors" among the members of the association than out in public. But, what do I know? I only design interactive websites for a living.

DwightT
(Idaho)

Posts:475

03/02/2007 1:19 PM
[quote]Posted By JoeW1 on 03/02/2007 8:16 AM DwightT - if the Board member doesn't understand that information can be automatically collected, get an expert to explain the process. [/quote] Well, with over 20 years of experience in the computer industry, including developing operating systems, networking software and web applications, I would have thought that I could pass myself off as an "expert". Guess I think more of my skills than others do. :-) [quote] As for the inclusion of a forum on a website, I would not advise it, password protected or not. You are opening up the possibility of opinions and non-factual information being disseminated to the community about the community. Not a good idea. IMO the information an HOA should sponsor and publish should be in minutes that are ratified, and information that is shared in community meetings. [/quote] I disagree with that. Those "opinions and non-factual information" are out there. Currently it is being shared at back-yard BBQs or at hedge-top conversations and we have no way to address it. With an online forum the homeowners can present these misconceptions and the Board (or others in the community) will have an opportunity to address those opinions and hopefully correct them, or at least offer their views. The idea is to provide as many channels for communication as possible.

RonaldW
(South Carolina)

Posts:900

03/02/2007 3:59 PM
[quote]Posted By DwightT on 03/02/2007 1:19 PM Well, with over 20 years of experience in the computer industry, including developing operating systems, networking software and web applications, I would have thought that I could pass myself off as an "expert". Guess I think more of my skills than others do. :-) [/quote] Yes, but they view you as another board member and as the designer of the website. When I worked as a computer and network specialist at a public high school, I sometimes had to have someone from the outside come in and tell the school administrators the same thing I already told them before they believed it was true.

Ron SC

JM2
(Oregon)

Posts:439

03/02/2007 4:13 PM
Hello Dwight: If you DO choose to include a forum, include something similar to what MSN does on their comment forums, where people can report a posting as offensive, and then it's taken off the forum and a note stating that fact is posted. J. Patrick Moore, CMCA

RobertR1
(South Carolina)

Posts:2487

03/02/2007 5:33 PM
My observation about websites is that as the site "matures" it takes on a life and purpose of it's own. The webmaster sets the format, monittors the postings but in the end, if wide lattitude is given Forums will work out a lot of their problems and rapidy move on to todays news. I am not one to believe we need to control people to get the best from them. You may notice a lot of posting deal with how do you handle specific abuses of Power in associations. That being the case, it appears what people are looking for is how to make their association better and information that they can evaluate and apply to real life problems. Sure, we will get nuts posting poison or worse, but we have a web master and he can control and direct the flow. All should have a site that deals with their organization and more friends that enimies will be realized, and more good done than bad. I guess about 90% of Forums, over the long run, help communication, a vital igredient of any successful association. Do try to be perfect.

hoatalk

Posts:490

03/02/2007 5:54 PM
DwightT: In gathering IP address, etc: You are right in that that's how the web works but I guess it sounds a bit Draconian to those that don't know the details of the Internet. 'We are collecting your information', etc. Maybe just re-word that part to be less technical. Our privacy policy has that same wording, so we see no problem, but different words may ease your board member's mind. The content on 3rd party sites issue: You must have that disclaimer if you have any links. Your link could be as innocent as an article on cnn.com, but CNN may have something else on it that a member doesn't like or mis-reads or mis-uses etc. To me, it's a bit like the 'Coffee is hot' warning we must put on cups now....of course it's hot! and of course you can't be responsible for the content of other's websites but you have to say that. Put one link to Google on your site and you just effectively linked to entire Internet. Now what? For the forum: As you know, our company hosts lots of HOA & COA websites. The forums are a hot topic. We offer many flavors but if you really want an open forum with control, you could simply moderate it, meaning force approval of every message before it appears on the site. This creates more work for you but allows control over content. A middle-ground option we use is this: Have the forum email every message to a group the Board chooses. But don't allow mass email to all members. Don't have approval or moderation. Now posts appear instantly, but since the website committee/Board gets emails of all messages they see them quickly and see them first. A couple of clicks and offensive content can be removed before any members see it. Since you block subscriptions by members, then it's impossible for a member to blast offensive stuff across email to the whole community. Offensive posters will quickly tire of having their stuff removed shortly after posting. Our system also allows blocking forum access for members that break the rules. There are lots of ways to solve the technical issue, but first the Board must actually want to have the feedback from members. If not, then no tech fix will be good enough. In that case the forums should be removed. For example, we have some Boards as customers that only want official communications to/from the HOA. That's OK, so we removed the forums from their site. The Board members are volunteers and only they can decide how much time they want to spend communicating and running the Association & how they want to receive the communication. Every community and every board is different in this.

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